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  1. #41
    Post whore Lawn Pac Champion Irish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al View Post
    The Mad Max post was influences by a Straw-ber-ita. If you don't know already, they are really good.
    Bullshit. They taste like liquid Sucrets!

    Good luck house hunting! Just bought a house a few months ago. It only took me 5 months to find mine.

  2. #42
    Fact or Crap? Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pOrk View Post
    Lol at public disturbance. Glad you guys aren't my neighbors, we have 80 year olds that are more interesting then you to be around .

    As for starter homes, that's what ours was 4 years ago. Now I can't see leaving anytime soon, we grew roots in our neighborhood and absolutely love it. Only downfall is small garage, but the huge yard makes up for it IMO
    I checked out a house on Halsey two months ago. I ended up talking with a very old man who lived there since the road was just a few years old. He said he wanted to live on that specific street because he served in the navy under the leadership of William "Bull" Halsey.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Halsey,_Jr.

    "I like to tell people that the guy my street is named after can kick the ass of the guy your street is named after."

    I talked with him for well over an hour. Subjects ranged from the quality of the houses to the noise of the propellers back in the day, to the neigbors' kids going to Vietnam.
    When Injustice Becomes Law; Rebellion Becomes Duty

  3. #43
    Saab vs The Police... Slow Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiscuit View Post
    One thing to never settle on is the garage if you are into cars. Cuz it could always be bigger, nicer, taller, deeper, more insulated and so on. I have a 3.5 car here and wish it had another stall
    This. Personally I have a "3" Car Garage with a 2 car door, however since I'm in the town of Ixonia I can pretty much build whatever I want, where the neighbors across the street in Lac La Belle (a Portion of the Town of Oconomowoc) can't. The joys of living in Jefferson County..

    Couple things I'll throw in is that even if it's not your last home, find a place that you're good with living in for 5-10 years. The good thing is that the market is on a rebound. We bought our house about two years near the bottom, and already our neighbors are selling their houses for 20-30k more than we paid for ours (similar houses/lots). Get on it as quick as possible because interest rates are heading upward as are house prices... At least out here.

    When we bought our house we drove past over 100 houses, got that list down to 10, walked through 5 and made an offer on/bought 1. No issues with other offers, etc here.

    Good luck and happy house hunting!
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  4. #44
    Fact or Crap? Al's Avatar
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    I'm heading to the bank tomorrow morning to make sure my finances are in proper shape.
    When Injustice Becomes Law; Rebellion Becomes Duty

  5. #45
    Fact or Crap? Al's Avatar
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    I have my sights set on a house northeast of 76th and Oklahoma. It's in the southeastern corner of Stallis.

    The asking price is about 2x my annual income. With 20% down, the monthly payments will be less than my weekly paychecks. With taxes included, the monthly payment will equal about 26% of my standard income (no overtime, no income of other sources). This seems very safe to me.

    There are two final details that I have looked into, but I still feel I don't know all that I should:

    Home Inspector: I know one inspector, but I'm concerned that he might be busy when I need him.

    Lawyer: This is the subject I've looked into the least.
    When Injustice Becomes Law; Rebellion Becomes Duty

  6. #46
    BCM Cruiser DerangedPony's Avatar
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    For sale by owner?

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  7. #47
    Post whore BoosTT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al View Post
    I have my sights set on a house northeast of 76th and Oklahoma. It's in the southeastern corner of Stallis.

    The asking price is about 2x my annual income. With 20% down, the monthly payments will be less than my weekly paychecks. With taxes included, the monthly payment will equal about 26% of my standard income (no overtime, no income of other sources). This seems very safe to me.

    There are two final details that I have looked into, but I still feel I don't know all that I should:

    Home Inspector: I know one inspector, but I'm concerned that he might be busy when I need him.

    Lawyer: This is the subject I've looked into the least.
    Not really sure if your numbers are before or after taxes. They sound pretty conservative though. Probably wise if you are the sole source of income. My wife and I just purchased a home last week and have the inspection Friday, so I can answer probably all of your questions.

    Inspector: Highly highly highly suggest Rodger @ Harthstone home inspection. This guy is far and away the best. We cancelled our contact on another house based on what Rodger found.

    Real estate attorney: We used Edward D. He was ok to good. Costs are $300-$500 for all the paper work and advice from the offer to final closing. I just say just ok as we needed to review the contracts for errors and turnaround time was about 12 hours (quicker if we needed it though).

    After doing it myself, I’m not sure if using an attorney vs. buyer’s agent is the correct move. It probably won me the house this time though as the commissions were as much as a brand new car. I’m suspecting the selling agent cut their commission from 3.5% (+2.5%) to something around 4.5% that won me the house in a multi-bid situation. Doing it yourself makes it more personal and less business.

    PM me if you want contact info for either.

  8. #48
    Fact or Crap? Al's Avatar
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    When I showed up to view the property on 72, the agent said that it just sold.
    Anyway, there is a very similar property near 33rd and Verona that I looked at. I like it, but needs some work and I think it should be lower in price.
    There is one more house 22nd and Barnard that I want to look at tomorrow.

    Is an attorney/buyer's agent needed for all sales or just "for sale by owner"?
    Can I trust a real estate agency to work ethically?
    Last edited by Al; 09-07-2013 at 03:53 PM.
    When Injustice Becomes Law; Rebellion Becomes Duty

  9. #49
    Post whore BoosTT's Avatar
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    You will need a attorney or agent to fill out the forms regardless if its Fsbo. You could DIY the forms, but its not worth the risk. They do some tricky things in the offer and counter offer forms.

    It's up to you if you can trust an realtor.... They weren't a help for us. Pretty easy to find houses online and have the listing agent show the property.

  10. #50
    Formerly known as Yellow Wagon jbiscuit's Avatar
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    Be really careful trusting a realtor. They do not have your best interest in mind. Some are good and work ethically but be sure to review all forms carefully and never sign anything until you are 110% sure everything is accurate.
    If you need someone to spend a couple hours going over all the paperwork with you the. Hire a lawyer to review everything. For a couple hundred dollars in lawyer fees, its piece of mind you aren't missing something important
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  11. #51
    Yeah, we went through a couple realtors ourselves before buying. What sucks is I am certain there was a couple homes we wanted that got sold out form under us by a realtor that showed us the homes. Totally illegal for them to do that, but hey, big dollar commissions are involved and people suck when it comes to money. We found some awesome deals on foreclosures just offered to market as well as homes that had been overlooked and had little in the way of showings... Kinda strange that a place had no looks for almost a month and a half, we look at it, go to put in an offer on a friday afternoon, the offer doesn't go in until after business hour, and all of a sudden there is a bidding war on it monday morning. Found out that after we looked at the place, someone just *HAD* to look at it later in the evening that friday and it had like a half dozen more showings over the weekend.

    So, yeah, don't trust real-estate agents. The best measure is how quickly they work for you. ie, if you want an offer in, is it in and done within a half hour, or 3-4 hours later?

    Also, stear clear of agents with a ton of affiliations into the real estate business itself. That was our problem, picked a "heavy hitter" that owned their own firm and was high in the ranks in the Wisconsin Real Estate politics. We put them to serious work, but we also had a buyers agency with them and there was far too many "questionable" instances of things that kept us from getting accepted offers.

    I am an extremely informed buyer on things and I had more stats and facts about the places we looked at then any of the agents involved (ours or the sellers), as well as knew how the various agencies work (Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac) and the way the banks deal with offers on foreclosures (such as Bank of America, Wells Fargo, etc) and knew exactly the timetables involved in getting an advantage to buying. I had my agent "play dumb" with me on more than one instance and totally caught them admitting they knew better in a future conversation.

    There are far too many agents like we used that have a string of investor-types that are just looking to buy a home and sit on it and flip it when the market turns around. Now, alot of this is all dependant on the types and price-range of the homes you are looking at, but there are investors at all levels looking to collect an inventory of homes.

  12. #52
    BCM Cruiser DerangedPony's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear the bad experiences but just like auto sales, not all realtors are like that. I work with two that are great to work with. They are available 24/7 and always think about their client. I understand that with so many realtors out there, its hard to find the good ones but there are some.

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  13. #53
    Formerly known as Yellow Wagon jbiscuit's Avatar
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    ^ I'd agree there are some good ones for sure. I meant just watch out for yourself, don't be pressured by an agent to do anything....even looking at a house you can't afford or one in a neighborhood you don't want. I had an agent that just flat out didn't listen. I told him what I wanted, where I wanted and what I could afford. He'd set up a showing for a house that 20% more expensive than I could afford, in an area I didn't want to live and so on. After a few times of him pulling that I cut ties with him. Not worth wasting your time or anyone else's looking at homes with zero intention to purchase. Classic upsell attempt I guess but that doesn't work when your client is firm on their wants. Like Dennis said, be an educated buyer, do your own research and be prepared to write offers on several homes before you actually get one.
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  14. #54
    Honestly, there wasn't a single home that was suggested to us to see. *I* was the one to specify which homes we wanted to look at. Very different from a lot of people where the agent is the one to suggest each and every home you end up looking at.

    We would go look at 2-6 homes a day, and that evening I would give our agent another 7-9 listings or more we wanted to look at and they would organize the showings for the next day or two... Out of the listings I gave them, they would come back with which ones were still available which ones could be scheduled...

    Did that non-stop (including weekends if possible) for over 2.5 months. Saw almost 80 homes in that time. Like I said, for all the inadequacies we definitely put our agent to work.

  15. #55
    Fact or Crap? Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiscuit View Post
    They do not have your best interest in mind.
    Interest #1 is their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by 95 TA - The Beast View Post
    I am an extremely informed buyer
    ^ This is what I am trying to be.

    I have an innate distrust of middle-men, but I can also justify that sense with the phrase "conflict of interest."
    My interest: get the most for my money
    Their interest: get the most money for the property

    I'm not going to say that the business is wrong in any way, but there are times when the ball is in their court. If they go beyond reasonable amounts, you walk away.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoosTT View Post
    Inspector: Highly highly highly suggest Rodger @ Harthstone home inspection.
    PM me if you want contact info for either.
    Sending PM
    When Injustice Becomes Law; Rebellion Becomes Duty

  16. #56
    Well, if you do a "buyers agency" agreement, then the agent, by law, has to work at an advantage to you, ie, they help you get the property for the price you want to pay.

    The problem with "buyers agency" is that if they are a shitty agent you are half screwed. I say that because unless you can prove they were not working in YOUR best interest, they have no legal requirement to let you out of the buyers agent contract. Thus, even if you no longer contact them, if you buy a house, they are due their commission.

    We had "buyers agency" and felt "stuck" for a bit, but we put them to work and work they did.

  17. #57
    BCM Cruiser DerangedPony's Avatar
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    Again, it all depends on the Realtor but many will have your best interest in mind. Not only is it in the Buyers Contract but the best realtors get a lot of their business from referrals.

    Honestly, I dont know if you can look at a buyer's agent as only a middleman. From offer to closing, there are so many deadlines, contracts, dates and amendments that they are doing you a huge service for free (if you are the buyer). Unless you have somebody who knows what they are doing, you could miss something that may cost you down the road.

    Example, there was a not so great realtor who worked with some buyers on a home in Vernon. It was getting close to closing and the well for the home tested high for bacteria. The buyers wanted to move in early so the realtor suggested to have the seller put $1000 in a escrow account to do any repairs on the well and the buyers closed on the house. Turns out the well needed to be lifted out, cleaned and pressure tank replaced which was going to cost the buyers at least $4000 because they already closed on the home and only asked for $1000 for repairs. If they would of had a more experienced realtor or at least one that did the research, they would have know what the cost could have been to replace the well.

    I don't know. I really don't think it's as bad as you think it is. Once, you find a good agent, the amount of knowledge they offer and the work they do is huge all at no cost to you unless you plan on buying a very inexpensive home because they do work on a min. commission. Also, not only would you have to pay for a lawyer, they may not have the same amount of knowledge. I'd say you should at least interview a agent and I'm sure you can tell whether or not you can work with them. Like I said, I do know a Agent who is very good and I can send you her info.
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  18. #58
    DerangedPony, sorry, you are completely biased because your livelihood is tied directly to an agent. Or so you stated above.

    A LOT of agents screw clients left and right on little things. Such as submitting offers IMMEDIATELY. I am not talking three or four hours from when you tell the agent you want to submit an offer, which many will argue is reasonable. I am talking you talk to the agent, the paperwork is done in 15 minutes, you get a copy, you sign, you send it back and everything is in the selling agency's hands within 20-30 minutes from when you decide to make an offer. Sooner if your agent has the paperwork ready and only has to fill out property information. And yes, I know all about the addendums and everything else with some offers and all that BS, but any way you look at it, timeliness makes ALL the difference in having offers accepted.

    Fact of the matter is, almost EVERYONE in the process outside of the buyer wants a bidding war. Regardless if the buyers agent wins this battle or not it is "good for the business" as a whole as houses sell for more and all parties involved in a closing make out with higher commissions. So I argue COMPLETELY that a buyers agent is ONLY working for the buyer. They are working for the buyer, for themselves, for their agency and for the real estate market as a whole. If not they are a shitty agent period.

    I know the timetables involved in having Fannie Mae (Homepath), Freddie Mac (Homesteps), BoA (Bank of America), Wells Fargo, etc in regards to how they review offers and when they decide on acceptance. The absoloutlely WORST time you want to put an offer in on ANY of them is late on a friday. I won't expose the timetables involved, but after a certain time you are GURANTEED to be in a bidding war come monday morning. Look at ANY foreclosure on a friday thru sunday is complete BS. Only look at them during the week and MAKE SURE offers are in before 1pm CST on a friday if your going to make one. We lost out on over a half dozen homes because our agent fucked us and filed late in the day on a friday. We saw one James Craig home that just came on the market. Saw it at 10:30am, told our agent at 11am that we wanted an offer in IMMEDIATELY for asking price, conditions of closing within 2 weeks, $5k earnest money that day with actual cash on hand for downpayment (ie, no transfers needed, no BS, straight up big pile of cash to get it done). They sent us the paperwork, we signed, had it back to them by 12:10pm. They didn't send it in until 5:45pm. Yep, bidding war by monday. Someone came in and made a cash offer for $35k over asking price and took it. That offer didn't come in until monday morning. I know for FACT that if Bank of America had our offer in by a certain time on the friday we wanted to make the offer, they would have accepted and it would have been done. We had accepted financing at not only Bank of America, but also Chase, Wells Fargo and 3 other banks that were preferred lenders with HomePath and HomeSteps, basically everything required to buy a foreclosure with any of the big companies that have specific requirements/preferential consideration per offer. Like I said, we had the bases covered and our agent fucked us.

    So, anyone that argues a buyers agency is only for you as a buyer is complete bullshit. I have no doubt you will find honest, ethical and reliable agents, but if they are that good I doubt you will get timely action to making offers and dealing with things. Unless they have a complete office that is full of people that are just as ethical and driven. VERY hard to find in the murky and ugly waters of the real estate market.

    Fact of the matter is, Wisconsin is a sellers market. It is dictated BY LAW that unless you have buyers agency, ALL agents MUST work in the SELLERS best interest. Again it is all about making the most money across the board. Every single buyer is in a very ugly situation on the outset. Like I said, to maximize your money you have your work cut out for you. I have zero problem with agents making commissions, I do have an issue with an agent making a commission without doing much, and many don't do enough for the buyers.

    Hell, I knew the exact market values, came up with my own set of formulas to determine if I was actually getting a deal or not and all the agents I dealt with, even with buyers agency thought I was being unrealistic because my figures were much lower than where they expected the market to be. Funny thing is, I was just about dead on in regards to most homes for what they actually sold for. That previously mentioned James Craig home was the only exception, but considering it was an early example, before they did cookie-cutter designs and with some unique features, I wasn't surprised. The home I ended up buying I got a great deal for. And yeah, I heard about all the agent BS that went on in regards to selling the home we bought from the neighbors after we moved in.

  19. #59
    BCM Cruiser DerangedPony's Avatar
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    I work for a listing agent, not a buyers agent so this has nothing to do with my livelihood. I'm just sharing some information and experiences I've had while working in the business.

    Sounds like you had a bad experience but I personally see many deals go together very smooth and in a timely matter. There was just an offer I saw submitted Sunday at 12:00 pm, counter offer sent back at 3:00 and fully accepted by 5:00 and that was on a weekend. Now, while doing a short sale or foreclose, the turnaround will not be that fast but that's because the bank is involved. The agent I work for and many others even pay for special e-signature programs that make signing offers very quick.

    I'm not going to tell you that agents don't care about commission because they obviously need to make a living but to assume that they are all in a back room somewhere trying to drive up the prices of all the homes in WI is just stupid. Many will show you comps of similar homes that are for sale or sold in the area, then they call the listing agent to get a feel for what kind of interest there has been in the home and how flexible they are on the price and they relay the info. to the buyers and the buyers decide what they want to offer. Of course if the realtor thinks the offer is way to low and there is a risk of loosing to to another buyer, they will say something but the offer price is always decided by the buyer. If that is your idea of being shady, then whatever.

    Again, I'm not trying to change anybody's mind and to tell you the truth, I kinda thought the same way before starting my current job but many agents I work with are very honest. It is amazing how much work goes into each deal but when we are working with another good agent, everything is just smoother and is done quicker.
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  20. #60
    The key point is the commissions are outrageous. To earn $5k-$7k for the sale of a $300k house is disgusting. Especially when the amount of work going into a lot of sales in no way justifies that kind of payback. And that is $5k-7k is PER AGENT. Ie, the buying agent and selling agent both get a commission.

    It will be argued that it all averages out considering all the sales that don't happen, all the offers that are not accepted, etc, etc... I say BS... Sales is sales, regardless if it is cars, homes or vacuum cleaners.

    Personally I have little to no respect for most salespeople. Very few actually EARN what they make, and most try to work as little as possible. Most all salespeople make judgements of people and predetermine who and how much almost immediately in regards to people spending money. And sorry to use a line that "comps" are actually comparables is BS... they pick comps that justify their figures.

    Sorry, I don't buy ANYTHING unless I feel I get a deal. I never pay retail (unless you have to, ie, a controlled priced product), and I will always not consider myself one of the blind "sheep" that most salespeople prey upon. I will let my friends that are in sales make more off me if I am so inclined, but I know where the money is going in that case.

    I have no problem with people needing to earn a living, but I don't agree for paying for other people losing out. The sales game is about averages, and I don't want to pay for the losing side of that equation.

    The house I bought was bought for just over half what it was valued at 2 years earlier, and it has been on a steady upwards trend back to that range ever since I bought it. Sure, I have been putting money into it, but considering the equity, it is only helping it. Considering what I put down on it, what I am paying on it in mortgage and the market value steadily increasing on it's own, I figure I will be 50/50 in equity/mortgage in less than 2 years. That is exactly the "best case" scenario that any homebuyer would love to be in, but most agents figure it is a pipedream since they figure a larger chunk of that should go to the sale and into their own pockets.

    Hell, if most agents worked for the buyers there wouldn't be hardly any foreclosures and home prices wouldn't have ever gone out of control the way they did. The banks are to blame, but the agents (being direct interfaces to the real-estate market as a whole) are the ones to blame just as well. Housing prices didn't jump because owners thought they could get more, it was agents that figured they could get more that pushed it as hard and as fast as it spiraled out of control.

    I originally looked at homes back in 2001, then had a few personal setbacks in regards to business which took buying off the table. When I started looking again in 2004-2005 I was disgusted to see homes that were $165-175k back in 2001 being sold for $280-320k... People are out of their minds thinking that was reasonable or sane. I didn't start looking again until spring of 2012 and it was at the bottom of the housing market slump. As far as I am concerned the market STILL is not corrected to where it needs to be. Home prices are still far to high. But, here we are with another upward house-price trend. I just find it hard to justify a pricing model that is so far out of whack with the increase in income and salaries. Sure lower interest rates helped people buy more home for the dollar, but that was just to keep home prices up. If they corrected down to where they *should* be then that "help" wouldn't have been as necessary. So now interest rates are going up and so are home prices. Doesn't seem to make sense, does it?

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