HVAC Issues!! -- AC Problem

[awsomeears]

I have personally seen a Dozen go out, they usually will burn up inside because the furnace is improperly installed or customer runs a plugged filter alll the time.

The boar is a 012 board or the new update I think it a 035, I just put one on my truck today I shit you not as we just replaced two of them.

Joe, on the t-stat you can hold the advance button for 10 seconds and get into a list of items. Scroll down to Error codes or fault codes.

If you see a code I think 25 called Model system setup error that is for sure a Board issue, next to it, it may say 255 events. An event is one individual time that the furnace acted up, it caps out at 255.

Keep me updated as I'm curious...

[Slow Joe]

Well, here's the current update. It's still broken. The local dealer sent out TWO techs (at the same time) and the owner was on call. They pretty much replaced everything inside the furnace, tried different combinations of components (new + old, new + new, etc) and it still doesn't work. They're stumped and have to get the Bryant Tech line on the phone to sort it out.

They were at my house over 2 hours, nearly 3... I'm sure this isn't going to be cheap...

Supposedly this thing is the "Cadillac" of furnaces according to these guys... Well it's sure showing that it is, damn northstar engines!!

[awsomeears]

Wire harness could be bad.. I'd ohm out each wire...

I've seen the harness get water/moisture In the pins that connects to motor and cause issues

When they were out what did they replace ?

They are the Cadillac and I think there JUNK. I've replaced almost 20 circuit boards last yer

[Slow Joe]

They replaced the motor (which I replaced), motor controller (motor end bell - which I replaced), and the main circuit board (which I hadn't replaced). NOTHING fixed the problem. They told me that they "don't have many issues with this model, and have never had issues they couldn't figure out in 30 minutes or less".

Luckily they removed all of their parts and put mine back, since... well I obviously didn't need those...

[95 TA - The Beast]

And all of this is exactly why I love my 25 year old Carrier 58GS100... As simple as it gets for design and parts are plentiful. Luckily with a 5-6hr/day runtime at -20 below, a high-efficiency upgrade buys me very little and the ROI is basically non-existent (ie, the newer high-efficiency would die before my ROI was realized and I would probably end up replacing it with another new one).

Hopefully with only a 5-6 hr/day max runtime my unit should stay running for many more years... I run my blower 24/7, so that should last a while, and even if I have to replace that and the gas valve it is cheap maintenance overall.

I do have a newer Hunter programmable thermostat with 3 remote thermometers spread throughout the house... I don't use scheduling since it buys me nothing and I just keep it at 68-70 in winter and 72 in summer. What i do use is the remote thermostats and program it to use the kitchen for temp during the day and the master bedroom in the evening/night. Tends to keep things a little more balanced where the people are at in the house with less variance overall.

Just saying this whole post is the reason I shudder at the idea of upgrading HVAC stuff... seems like the newer stuff just is not built to last at all. I figure I will end up replacing the central air system at some point in the next 10-12 years, but I hope the furnace ends up lasting me a nice, long time... KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is sometimes the best policy for stuff you have to rely upon. The sheer cost of furnaces and their upkeep from a "pro" seems like a great big scam now-a-days.

Just like the new higher efficiency electric water heaters... 100,000 times more complex than the simple 99.8% efficient old-school electrics because of the new heat exchanger systems... With a life expectancy of 6-8 years (and that is being generous per some estimates) it doesn't even compare to old-school units that will last 20-30 years at least if properly maintained (flushed of sediment every 6 months, new anode every 2-4 years, new thermostats/heating elements/T&P valves every 6-8 years as needed). Give me simple and reliable any day and you will see reduced overall costs for the life of the unit...

Sure, high-efficiency furnaces do result in lower energy costs, but overall, if added all up, I have a funny feeling you aren't saving much in the long-run when you factor in system costs, maintenance, repairs, replacement and all the associated upgrades/changes needed to make the change over.

I would think investing in heavy-duty insulation and making the entire house energy efficient would make as big, if not a bigger change in energy useage. And it surely would have a longer-last effect on ROI for other changes made elsewhere.

[95 TA - The Beast]

And, I may add, with the change in housing from people having the attitude of "upgrading" to a new home every 5 or 6 years, hopefully people will, once again, decide that their home is just that, for like 10-15-even 20+ years. with an attitude like that, the insulation and long-term gains of making a home very efficient should be a priority for many.

When people have an attitude that their current home is just a stepping stone, it is great for the HVAC industry as people just don't care if things don't last, as they figure they will be gone by the time the repairs and replacement cycle comes due.

[jbiscuit]

I have to say, i love my power vented AO Smith water heater. 50gal model. I was convinced I needed to go tankless with this house but man this thing is a beast! Can take an extended shower and within a couple min of getting out of the shower the hot water is replenished and ready to go for the next user. Its amazing! Very quiet (can barely hear the fan run) and with the same basic features of tankless! Nearly endless hot water supply!

[awsomeears]

They replaced the motor (which I replaced), motor controller (motor end bell - which I replaced), and the main circuit board (which I hadn't replaced). NOTHING fixed the problem. They told me that they "don't have many issues with this model, and have never had issues they couldn't figure out in 30 minutes or less".

Luckily they removed all of their parts and put mine back, since... well I obviously didn't need those...

Now in the lower left corner of the board is a I.d. tag that little memory card always should be transferred to a new board.

Wonder if they did that.

Have you REINSTALLED the system at the thermostat ?

If not hold advaced for 10 seconds then go to install and re install. It will ask u filter type or if a humidfier is installed and what TON of a/c u have.

U should just PM UR #

[Slow Joe]

They fixed it... Guess they didn't try their own motor yesterday. They brought their own motor and bell end, put that in, it worked, they left and gave me no clue how much this is going to cost... Not a huge fan of how the HVAC industry works.

As for fancy new furnaces... I didn't pick this thing out. It's cool, it's certianly efficient.. Our heating bills are half here in our 2300sq ft house as they were in our 1100sq ft side by side (that was built in the late 80s)... It can do things like manage humidity instead of just temperature. I do program my thermostat because I let it cool down at night in winter, and be a little warmer during the day in summer... However, for the cost of this repair it probably just spent my last two years worth of savings... And maybe some savings into the next year or so... Of course everything breaks sooner or later, it's just annoying. And what's more annoying is that I bought the right parts for it and got bad parts that didn't work, so now I have to return those...

I have to edit this because I called them and asked for the total, they called me back with it and it was more reasonable than I was expecting... I'll also say that it's nice having AC again... I should have just called these guys instead of being a cheap ass and screwing around with it myself...

[awsomeears]

The new motor should have a silver end bell. But there also sold as a one piece now...

Good to hear its working

[95 TA - The Beast]

The efficiency thing has more to do with the build of the house in regards to insulation, drafts, etc... you will only notice a 15-20% difference in heating bills between a new uber-efficiency unit and even my 78-79% efficient old-school one... Sure it makes a difference when you have $350-400/mo heating bills, I mean that is a $75+ difference a month, but for a $100-120/mo bill it is no-where near enough to justify the expense to upgrade for $10-15/mo.

[jbiscuit]

$350 heating bill!? Good god

[95 TA - The Beast]

$350 heating bill!? Good god

Well, when you start talking about heating 4000-5000 sq/ft of living space, it adds up quick...

Hell, start adding some more people in the house with computers and everything else and electric bills go up quick as well... 8 people in the house and we have electric bills of $500-600+... Then again, electric water heaters, electric stove, electric dryer, multiple refrigerators, dozens of computers and other electronics, hot tub heater/pumps, pool filtration, etc... it all adds up quick-like...

[Lash]

You have a 5000 sq ft house?

[95 TA - The Beast]

It is between 4600-4800 sq/ft useable, yeah... There is 5 bedrooms total with a front room, dining room, kitchen/dinette, family room, front bedroom, 1/2 bath and mudroom on the main level, loft office, 3 bedrooms for the kids, main bath and master suite with master bath on the second level, and then the computer center, theater, 1/2 bath, aux kitchen and utility area downstairs. The utility area will be another bedroom, a storage area and a dedicated business office this winter/next spring. The whole house, ie all areas outside of the garage, are heated/cooled completely. If you include the cathedral ceilings in the front room as part of the square footage it is just over 5000 sq/ft (which for heating/cooling I was told you should include in your calculation since the airspace is the same).

The garage is about 700 sq/ft or so and that comes into play as well, not because it has active heating/cooling venting into it (which it does not), but because the master suite is directly above and the heatsink effect of the garage comes into play in regards to heating more than it does cooling the master suite. That is why I just got done putting new insulated garage doors in (it had circa 1988 Wayne-Dalton polyurethane insulated doors in it before, but they were not straight/true at the edges and didn't seal at all) and am going to be adding brush moulding to the inside of the doors to get them to seal properly. I am hoping I won't need to run the baseboard electric heaters in the master suite this coming winter. Last winter it cost about $70-80/mo to run the heaters in just that room to stabilize the temp at 69 degrees. With just the gas furnace that room would swing 6-8 degrees total, which was a major issue to keep that room comfortable. It was a concern because we had our little guy (1 year old at the time) still sleeping in our room. This summer he turned 2 and he is now sleeping on a trundle in one of his older brothers' bedroom, so I can actually keep our room a little cooler overall and hopefully not have to worry about a heavy swing with the garage below properly sealed off. If I have a total 2-4 degree temp swing I won't care and won't have to run the baseboard heaters at all.

[95 TA - The Beast]

I will add that this place is uber-well insulated in that heating bills in the winter are only $105-120/mo to keep the entire house at 68-70 degrees and it costs about $165-175 to cool it down to 72 degrees in summer.

I may end up going with a more efficient 3-ton central air unit next year, as we only have a 10-Seer system in here now. But, the big issue comes into the condenser size since the unit is currently outside the fence by the gate right by the garage side door and any of the newer, more efficient, setups have huge condenser units that won't fit. Plus I have to calculate in the ROI of an upgrade. As it, the current unit was basically unused for at least 2 years, was installed in 2001-2002, and I just ended up putting in a new capacitor and contactor this year and had it charged up to spec (no leaks found so I am thinking they never properly charged it in the first place). It works well and I will hopefully have at least another 5-8 years use out of it before I *need* to replace it. I do like to be prepared though and seeing how most newer HVAC equipment is built to fail sooner than later I may end up choosing to replace it sooner with a slightly older, but brand new, setup that is proven to be quite reliable that a buddy of mine has in stock in Ohio (his family got out of the HVAC business and they have some older stock to get rid of, which means a road-trip, but for the savings, no big deal). That coupled with a hookup with a HVAC guy I know means a brand-new 18-seer 3-ton setup, installed for a grand. But, then again, I have a cedar-shake roof that is 24 years old to worry about first... Isn't home ownership fun?

[jbiscuit]

So wait....you said you have electric bills of $500-600/month and $350/month heating bills? So total utility (since WE Energies combines these two) is closing in on $1000/month in the winter? If that is truly the case something is wrong in your house. Something is running nonstop, a hole in the side of the house pumping the heat outside or you are way over using something.

To put it into perspective, I have an 1800 SF ranch with an unfinished basement. Energy Star home. 2 refrigerators, a dehumidifier, electric stove, electric dryer, lots of lighting in the garage, lots of power out in the garage, landscape lighting etc. I haven't cut back on my energy usage at all. None. Our HIGHEST combined gas/electric in January was less than $200....combined! No way you should be paying $1000/month in utilities. Seems to me that furnace COULD be costing you a lot of coin!

[95 TA - The Beast]

Jason, please read man!

My gas bill is $105-120/mo in winter at -20 below... Most people have gas bills for a house this size of at least $300-400... Electric heat would be even more expensive...

My highest energy bill has been $700/mo, and that is combined... And that is normally is summer. In winter the bill is $500-600 or so... At least they were before the hot tub (650 gal, 10-person)...

When we had the apartment the energy bills in the summer were $400+...

In the house we have a ton of electronics, all new appliances, tons of computers and 4 of the 5 kids all gaming at times, so increased energy useage for 3D games...

Now with my mother living with us we end up doing 10-12 loads of laundry a week, have a ton going on here and in general have a very active household. We do have a lot of energy efficient light bulbs and such and the kids have been told they aren't allowed to use the theater without our permission anymore (noticed the track lighting on in there more than a few times along with the big screen set and everything all going with no-one in there because they went over to the computer center and were gaming), so hopefully that will make a change...

I have also been cooking as much as possible outdoors with the grill and the Tuscan oven, so I have been attempting to cut my electric useage for cooking as much as possible.

Per the electric company and a few people I know with similar lifestyles we aren't using all that much more than most in regards to electricity, yet we have a ton more computing and electronics than most. In regards to heating we are actually really low compared to most with the same square footage to heat. Like I mentioned $300-400 is the average range with high-efficiency furnaces. Hell I had WE-Energies call me last winter and they wanted to make sure since I had kids in the house that I wasn't keeping the house too cold. They were shocked when I told them it was set to 69-70 degrees. They cannot believe how energy efficient the house is.

[jbiscuit]

The way you word things, I just tallied your figures. I don't really care just saying.

[awsomeears]

95 TA

You have got to be a Engineer of some sort !!!