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  1. #1
    Ol' School awsomeears's Avatar
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    Identifying a 318/383/440 ????

    I went to look at a 65 Dodge Monaco today and the guy said its a 440, the previous owner before him ( he's owned it for5 years ) said its out of a 1970 or 70's van.

    I looked at the motor mounts and seen there were 3" x 3" rubber spacers with custom cleanly done brackets resembling factory ones bolted to the engine.

    Now my thoughts are why would spacers be needed on a big old 440 ? this could be a 318 or 383.

    Chris ( prince valiant ) is the one who got me thinking because I sent him emails about the car knowing Chris could share some info on the car or just his overall opinion.

    I did not get a chance to GOOGLE where to find a STAMP on the BLOCK to find out what it really is.

    So where on the motor should I have the guy look ?

    Here is a picture of it :

    Last edited by awsomeears; 05-16-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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  2. #2
    A regular know-it-all Tetris Champion Snake Champion Lasagna From Heaven Champion Mac Man Champion Mahjong. Champion Mini Putt 3 Champion Plastic Saucer Champion Ratman Ralph Champion Prince Valiant's Avatar
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    Distributer on the front, that's either a B or RB engine....a poly 318, which is what a 65 would have, has it in back like the other small blocks.

    So then the other thing to distinguish b/w a 383 and a 440 is the front pad, just above the water pump and on the driver side of the engine...looks like this:


    If this pad is there, and there are no numbers that say, the only possibility it could be would really be a 413...which was available in 65.

    Yes, there are very rare 383's and 426 wedges with the pads, but chances are next to nill you'd run across those. (most 383's were "B" blocks that did not have this...but few late 50-60's 383 were small bore, long stroke engines built in the "RB" block...I've never personally seen one).

    for the record, B is "B-block" and RB is "Raised B-block"

    The spacers you saw were simply the puck style engine mounts...rubber isolators if you will. Perfectly normal for those years...and being in good shape, indicates that it might have been a recent swap with new mounts used.

    It's unlikely that it was a 318 poly to start (possible, sure...but unlikely) since it's a swap that requires the correct trans and new radiator minimum...and perhaps a new K-member or special engine mounts too...can't recall since C bodies are rather unique among mopars....whereas a 383 to 440 swap is about as simple as they come (same basic engine, one with a higher deck height, making it marginally taller and wider).
    Last edited by Prince Valiant; 05-16-2010 at 10:55 PM.
    1979 Lil' Red Express -Officially the quickest "bolt-on" LRT in the country.
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  3. #3
    A regular know-it-all Tetris Champion Snake Champion Lasagna From Heaven Champion Mac Man Champion Mahjong. Champion Mini Putt 3 Champion Plastic Saucer Champion Ratman Ralph Champion Prince Valiant's Avatar
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    btw, a further shot...you can see where the pad would be to the right of the water neck/thermostat housing:

    1979 Lil' Red Express -Officially the quickest "bolt-on" LRT in the country.
    1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
    The most powerful production Minivan, ever...

    Be sure to check out my weekly adventures on the second page of your Sunday Comics!

  4. #4
    A regular know-it-all Tetris Champion Snake Champion Lasagna From Heaven Champion Mac Man Champion Mahjong. Champion Mini Putt 3 Champion Plastic Saucer Champion Ratman Ralph Champion Prince Valiant's Avatar
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    By the way brad, the Monaco is a "C" body, the largest car in the mopar line up. Great cars with great lines...the ultimate "cruiser", usually geared for nice hwy jaunts.

    Those years should use an 8 3/4 diff, which has a ton of aftermarket support out there including sure-grip and other LSD, and as wide an assortment of gears as you can imagine....though I can't imagine wanting anything higher than 3.23's if you're looking to take any road-trips with this...with that engine, 2.94'-3.23's is perfect. Heck, even 2.76 and you'd fly down the road...nothing like a 440 w/ 2.76's winding it out in second gear (brother had a 1971 New Yorker, TNT 440, 2.76 gears...fun to open up on the hwy...or heck, anywhere! Went mid 15's at the track with only a new timing chain, 2.5 inch duals up from a smaller dual set-up, and an upgrade to MP's electronic ignition).

    Those years looked especially similar to the 66-67 B bodies, so many get them confused.

    You could fit 10 dead hookers in the trunk of one of these things...heck, these are longer AND wider than my truck, lol. And heavier too. (3900 for the truck to 4100 for that c-body).

    As far as ride and drive, most of the big cars from this era drove REALLY REALLY floaty stock which made for great interstate rides...but not much else. The Mopar C bodies were firm by comparison...so while they still handled like barges, they were nimble barges in contrast to the fords and gm's of the time...as was commonly quoted in magazines of the time, and by my own personal experiences:

    Quote Originally Posted by car and driver, dec 1967
    Comfort is impressive although (Mopar) has to its everlasting credit, resisted the temptation of providing the jello bowl suspension that has become omnipresent on the big chevy's and fords. Visibility is very good and the driver can make it down the highway with a (C-body) and honestly feel that he has some direct influence over what the machine is doing. No question, the (C-bodies) are the best handling cars in the so-called "volume" (size) segment of the market.
    Again, you wouldn't be beating an MG from that era of auto...but you'd be surprised at the fun you can have punishing the tires in that thing.
    1979 Lil' Red Express -Officially the quickest "bolt-on" LRT in the country.
    1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
    The most powerful production Minivan, ever...

    Be sure to check out my weekly adventures on the second page of your Sunday Comics!

  5. #5
    Ol' School awsomeears's Avatar
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    Chris I couldn't have ask for any better info, thanks man I really appreciate it.........
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  6. #6
    A regular know-it-all Tetris Champion Snake Champion Lasagna From Heaven Champion Mac Man Champion Mahjong. Champion Mini Putt 3 Champion Plastic Saucer Champion Ratman Ralph Champion Prince Valiant's Avatar
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    Oh, and you asked about gas mileage in your email....that's a tougher one to answer.

    Pretty much any of the old, high geared cars were capable of decent mileage, it just demanded that they were well tuned and with a generally good carb on there. Also, particularly with a carb, your driving style is very important...numerous, even small adjustments to the throttle as you drive will pump excess fuel down the carb...

    But driven smartly, and not too quickly...say around 70 mph with sub 3.0 gears or 65 with 3.23's, you should pull anywhere from 17 to perhaps as high as 20mpg. Most likely you'll end up around 18mpg though....

    If/when you get this thing, I can help you determine what you've got and help you get a good decent tune for good mileage/power.
    1979 Lil' Red Express -Officially the quickest "bolt-on" LRT in the country.
    1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
    The most powerful production Minivan, ever...

    Be sure to check out my weekly adventures on the second page of your Sunday Comics!

  7. #7
    Also, the letter is the year starting in 1965...

    So, A=1965, B=1966, C=1967, etc. so you can tell just how late of a smogger 1970s van it came out of...
    96 Viper GTS Underground Racing Twin 78mm Precision turbos, Proline 510 stroker-1483RWHP
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    75 Trailduster 440 Convertible
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  8. #8
    Great post, very informative to read. One other question to add to this, I've heard the old myth that older 440's (Post 75) couldn't be bored past 20 thousandths due to thinner water jackets? You guys ever seen this before? I've seen plenty of 440's built past 75 and all seemed to be about the same thickness as any built in the late 60's or early 70's except for the external crank.
    Mike

  9. #9
    A regular know-it-all Tetris Champion Snake Champion Lasagna From Heaven Champion Mac Man Champion Mahjong. Champion Mini Putt 3 Champion Plastic Saucer Champion Ratman Ralph Champion Prince Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike440SB View Post
    Great post, very informative to read. One other question to add to this, I've heard the old myth that older 440's (Post 75) couldn't be bored past 20 thousandths due to thinner water jackets? You guys ever seen this before? I've seen plenty of 440's built past 75 and all seemed to be about the same thickness as any built in the late 60's or early 70's except for the external crank.
    Mike
    There is that notion out there that thinner wall casting was done for the bores, however, like you've said, there are plenty being bored safely out to .060.

    Not that there aren't blocks one encounters that can't be safely bored that far...one should always sonic check whether it's a 66' block or 78 block...
    1979 Lil' Red Express -Officially the quickest "bolt-on" LRT in the country.
    1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
    The most powerful production Minivan, ever...

    Be sure to check out my weekly adventures on the second page of your Sunday Comics!

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