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  1. #41
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    That's why I can't stand Thompson, because he seems to think he can fix everything just with the draft.

    If I'm the Packers, I'm interested in resigning Pickett (whom I like better then Raji) and Jolly for sure. Both are young and still playing well. then my main concern is Offensive line. Colledge is gone. His position is priority 1 to replace, and depending on how the draft plays out I'm looking for either the best Tackle or Guard in the draft. And with that said he's a guy I'm not switching positions on. I'm drafting a tackle to play tackle and a guard to play guard. This bringing guys in and training them at new positions crap doesn't work.

    My focus then is on DB's. Whether it's CB's or Safeties. I'm not a big fan of Collins. I think he may make INT's but he blows alot of assingments. I'd seriously move Woodson to Free Safety. He's best when he's all over the field, like how we used Butler back in the day. It allows him to make plays. Strong Safety there looks to be a couple big names out there. Maybe somebody like a Dawan Landry. Bigby is just not good enough, he looks for the hit more then the tackle, gets hurt alot, and gives up big plays. CB hit the draft. Get somebody with some big time speed, who can play at the very least nickle, and can be a kick returner as well. I swear to god we have the slowest special teams in the league.

    They also need to find a change of pace RB in the draft. Again someone with some moves and some burst. Somebody who can catch a ball on 3rd down checkdowns and make a damn play. Brandon Jackson is just too similar a runner to Grant IMO. If you blow open a huge hole, they'll make a play, but they don't make their own plays. That or sign a guy like Chester Taylor from the Vikings. Just someone who can make a guy miss.

    They then need to get themselves a DE who can rush the passer. I for one never understood why Kampmann couldn't play the position. He held up the outside just fine on running plays in the 4-3. When he played DE he wasn't that much smaller then alot of other ends. Maybe a tad shorter, and maybe 20 lbs less. But on passing downs why he couldn't be effective with a hand on the ground I don't get. Trying to make him cover guys and fall into zones was beyond stupid. And considering the difficulty he had, I'm guessing he'll be cheap. Let him put back on 20-30 lbs and have at it.

    WR's, TE's, FB's are all fine. LB's are okay as well for the most part. I'd draft a replacement for Barnett if available. But I think he's way overrated and doesn't really do much that well. But with the other talent around him I think that's hidden.

    Then they badly need a punter. At the very least let Kapinos go see the kicking coach that Ryan wanted to see that the Packers wouldn't allow. Cause Ryan saw him, went to Seattle and became one of the best in the league. And atleast bring in a kicker to make Crosby sweat.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Karps TA View Post
    That's why I can't stand Thompson, because he seems to think he can fix everything just with the draft.

    If I'm the Packers, I'm interested in resigning Pickett (whom I like better then Raji) and Jolly for sure. Both are young and still playing well. then my main concern is Offensive line. Colledge is gone. His position is priority 1 to replace, and depending on how the draft plays out I'm looking for either the best Tackle or Guard in the draft. And with that said he's a guy I'm not switching positions on. I'm drafting a tackle to play tackle and a guard to play guard. This bringing guys in and training them at new positions crap doesn't work.

    My focus then is on DB's. Whether it's CB's or Safeties. I'm not a big fan of Collins. I think he may make INT's but he blows alot of assingments. I'd seriously move Woodson to Free Safety. He's best when he's all over the field, like how we used Butler back in the day. It allows him to make plays. Strong Safety there looks to be a couple big names out there. Maybe somebody like a Dawan Landry. Bigby is just not good enough, he looks for the hit more then the tackle, gets hurt alot, and gives up big plays. CB hit the draft. Get somebody with some big time speed, who can play at the very least nickle, and can be a kick returner as well. I swear to god we have the slowest special teams in the league.

    They also need to find a change of pace RB in the draft. Again someone with some moves and some burst. Somebody who can catch a ball on 3rd down checkdowns and make a damn play. Brandon Jackson is just too similar a runner to Grant IMO. If you blow open a huge hole, they'll make a play, but they don't make their own plays. That or sign a guy like Chester Taylor from the Vikings. Just someone who can make a guy miss.

    They then need to get themselves a DE who can rush the passer. I for one never understood why Kampmann couldn't play the position. He held up the outside just fine on running plays in the 4-3. When he played DE he wasn't that much smaller then alot of other ends. Maybe a tad shorter, and maybe 20 lbs less. But on passing downs why he couldn't be effective with a hand on the ground I don't get. Trying to make him cover guys and fall into zones was beyond stupid. And considering the difficulty he had, I'm guessing he'll be cheap. Let him put back on 20-30 lbs and have at it.

    WR's, TE's, FB's are all fine. LB's are okay as well for the most part. I'd draft a replacement for Barnett if available. But I think he's way overrated and doesn't really do much that well. But with the other talent around him I think that's hidden.

    Then they badly need a punter. At the very least let Kapinos go see the kicking coach that Ryan wanted to see that the Packers wouldn't allow. Cause Ryan saw him, went to Seattle and became one of the best in the league. And atleast bring in a kicker to make Crosby sweat.
    one problem with resigning Jolly is his pending felony drug charge. Would hate to sign him and then he winds up in prison for drugs
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  3. #43
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    Well of course you have to wait on that. But the guy is a big time disrupter on the field.
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  4. #44
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    Question: Which is worse - being a "one and done" team, or making it to the Super Bowl and losing, so the entire world thinks you suck, regardless of the fact that you were conference champs?

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  5. #45
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    I'd rather be one and done then any other option myself. People only remember Super Bowls in a positive light. If you're not winning Championships, then what's the point? Then you might as well be getting better draft picks so you can make it to the SB.

    And I'd rather not make a Super Bowl, then lose a Super Bowl. I remember the 96 Super Bowl like it happened last weekend. The 97 Super Bowl if it wasn't for just seeing it on NFL network not that long ago, I couldn't tell you a thing about it. It was purged from my memory.
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  6. #46
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    So you guys are saying that if the packers had a shot at the superbowl and lost you would rather have lost in the playoffs?!? Losing is losing, but nobody would trade a superbowl appearance for a playoff loss, whether you loose or win its still much better than being knocked off early in the playoffs. How much better would you guys be feeling next year if this packer team at least made the superbowl?!? I know you guys are hurting after that loss but come on, seriously. The momentum/experience/accomplishment gained from making the superbowl is well worth that 1 or 2 seat drop in the draft.
    Last edited by gottwins?; 01-13-2010 at 06:03 PM.

  7. #47
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    You think Buffalo fans are happy with 4 Super Bowl appearances, or would they have traded that for 1 SB win?

    How About Philly? They went to what 4 NFC championships games and lost 1 SB. Think they'd rather have 1 SB win than all of that?

    Plus if there was ever a year to be happy about being out, it's this year. See next year could be an uncapped year. And the only teams that will have restrictions placed on how many FA they can go out and sign are the top 8 teams. Now in the Packers case it may be a moot point cause TT would rather cut off a finger then sign a FA. But if you're not good enough to win the whole damn thing, what's the point of playing another week?
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  8. #48
    El Genio gottwins?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karps TA View Post
    You think Buffalo fans are happy with 4 Super Bowl appearances, or would they have traded that for 1 SB win?

    How About Philly? They went to what 4 NFC championships games and lost 1 SB. Think they'd rather have 1 SB win than all of that?

    Plus if there was ever a year to be happy about being out, it's this year. See next year could be an uncapped year. And the only teams that will have restrictions placed on how many FA they can go out and sign are the top 8 teams. Now in the Packers case it may be a moot point cause TT would rather cut off a finger then sign a FA. But if you're not good enough to win the whole damn thing, what's the point of playing another week?
    Buffalo loosing 4 times in the superbowl has nothing to do with it because the question is..would you rather loose in the playoffs or get to the superbowl and loose. So the REAL question you should be asking is would those buffalo fans rather not even made the superbowl any of those times and lost in the playoffs everytime in which the answer would be no.

    The question itself really makes no sense and seems like part of a grieving process because then it would validate questions such as "Would you rather not make the playoffs at all than make them every year and loose?" It makes no sense, the point is to achieve the highest level win or loose.
    Last edited by gottwins?; 01-13-2010 at 07:05 PM.

  9. #49
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    Trust me, I'm not grieving here. lol
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  10. #50
    Rather be junkyarding PB86MCSS's Avatar
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    I was a big Bills fan as a kid during and after the Super Bowl years for a little while too, I'm very proud of the fact they made four in a row...not sure if/when we will see that again. I think the league and media has finally respected those teams over the years. If someone thinks a Super Bowl loser is just a loser, then they are idiots IMO. Would I trade four losses for one win? Honestly, I'd have to think about that some more....part of me says yes but making four in a row is probably a tougher accomplishment, even if you lose them. To me the fun isn't just winning it all, the road to get there week in and week out is the excitement. One loss doesn't take that all away. Having one good season then others not even making the Playoffs would be more boring and frustrating, I think.

    Basically, I don't see the whole point as winning it all. Sure thats the ultimate goal. That might beaten into the head of folks since the media glorifies the winner of a big game but to me the goal is to have a competitive team year in and year out, at least that gives me the most satisfaction. I could care less what the media tries to sell me. Having down years sucks worse than losing in the Playoffs or a Super Bowl. Playoffs in baseball are a crapshoot, football is almost the same way with parity. The best teams don't always win...so if you go nuts building what you think is the best team on paper, you can lose to a Wild Card type team anyway....we've seen enough of those examples over the years. When has the best team on paper won? Not saying don't try to build the best team you can, but enjoying the ride is more important than celebrating winning the final game, at least as a fan. I obviously can't speak for a professional athlete. I think being a Bills fan has taught me that over the years....and an A's fan in baseball to a lesser extent, with having one of the best teams in baseball for a few years in a row but losing in the first round of each series .
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  11. #51
    El Genio gottwins?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karps TA View Post
    Trust me, I'm not grieving here. lol
    I was just talking about the original question. Only after that fact that the team losses are these questions brought up and given credibility. Ask the same question a couple of days ago and it would have been laughed at yet the packers would have been underdogs for the rest of the playoffs/superbowl.

  12. #52
    El Genio gottwins?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB86MCSS View Post
    I was a big Bills fan as a kid during and after the Super Bowl years for a little while too, I'm very proud of the fact they made four in a row...not sure if/when we will see that again. I think the league and media has finally respected those teams over the years. If someone thinks a Super Bowl loser is just a loser, then they are idiots IMO. Would I trade four losses for one win? Honestly, I'd have to think about that some more....part of me says yes but making four in a row is probably a tougher accomplishment, even if you lose them. To me the fun isn't just winning it all, the road to get there week in and week out is the excitement. One loss doesn't take that all away. Having one good season then others not even making the Playoffs would be more boring and frustrating, I think.

    Basically, I don't see the whole point as winning it all. Sure thats the ultimate goal. That might beaten into the head of folks since the media glorifies the winner of a big game but to me the goal is to have a competitive team year in and year out, at least that gives me the most satisfaction. I could care less what the media tries to sell me. Having down years sucks worse than losing in the Playoffs or a Super Bowl. Playoffs in baseball are a crapshoot, football is almost the same way with parity. The best teams don't always win...so if you go nuts building what you think is the best team on paper, you can lose to a Wild Card type team anyway....we've seen enough of those examples over the years. When has the best team on paper won? Not saying don't try to build the best team you can, but enjoying the ride is more important than celebrating winning the final game, at least as a fan. I obviously can't speak for a professional athlete. I think being a Bills fan has taught me that over the years....and an A's fan in baseball to a lesser extent, with having one of the best teams in baseball for a few years in a row but losing in the first round of each series .
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  13. #53
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    Okay ask any player that same question. Ask Jim Kelly. Ask Dan Marino.

    Players play to win championships. As I said before. The biggest hurt/disappointment I've ever felt as a fan was losing that 97 Super Bowl. That crushed me as a fan. If the team goes 8-8 or 4-12, that doesn't bother me that much because expectations are low usually to begin with. I'm a reasonable enough fan to know when the team isn't good enough to win it all. But losing Super Bowls, or losing Division championships when you have a good enough team is extremely heartbreaking.

    For anyone to even think the Packers had a good enough team this year to win it all is crazy and is just being so blinded by your allegiance, that you ignore what is actually happening on the field.

    And that's not a rip on the team. It's young, it has holes, and is not ready yet. There's nothing wrong with a team growing. What's wrong is thinking that since they beat a bunch of shitty teams that the team is one of the best in the league.
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  14. #54
    Rather be junkyarding PB86MCSS's Avatar
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    I'd MUCH rather lose a Super Bowl than be 8-8 let alone 4-12...I can't imagine a fan who didn't enjoy the ride to get there, that they would rather have a crap season instead. More good than bad happened in 97' for the Packers.

    Players play first to establish themselves in the league, get paid, then get respect from peers/fans...and then more money. Once they have all of that being the best team comes in, I truly believe. It's always more important for established veterans to win it all than a younger player. Players say the right things and do want to win it all...but I don't think they simply play to win it all, thats it. That would basically say there is only one winner...and the rest are losers.

    I think Jim Kelly and Dan Marino are pretty happy with their careers and don't lose any sleep at night...but I haven't asked them how much it eats at them. They are still Hall of Famers who have a ton of respect from the players, fans, media, etc.
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  15. #55
    El Genio gottwins?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karps TA View Post
    Okay ask any player that same question. Ask Jim Kelly. Ask Dan Marino.

    Players play to win championships. As I said before. The biggest hurt/disappointment I've ever felt as a fan was losing that 97 Super Bowl. That crushed me as a fan. If the team goes 8-8 or 4-12, that doesn't bother me that much because expectations are low usually to begin with. I'm a reasonable enough fan to know when the team isn't good enough to win it all. But losing Super Bowls, or losing Division championships when you have a good enough team is extremely heartbreaking.

    For anyone to even think the Packers had a good enough team this year to win it all is crazy and is just being so blinded by your allegiance, that you ignore what is actually happening on the field.

    And that's not a rip on the team. It's young, it has holes, and is not ready yet. There's nothing wrong with a team growing. What's wrong is thinking that since they beat a bunch of shitty teams that the team is one of the best in the league.
    So you would ask jim kelley if he would rather loose every year in the playoffs than go to the superbowl? Im pretty positive any player would say go to the superbowl...why? because you got there, you beat the teams in your conference and you went on to the big show with a fighting chance to win it all. Whether or not you did is a separate issue. At the end of the day your NFC/AFC champions and went to the superbowl with a chance to win it, you gave your fans and players that hope, I usually agree with you but to say that you would rather have a loosing season than loose a Superbowl is crazy talk lol. While I agree that WINNING the superbowl is the ultimate goal, im actually thankful I don't have a team like the lions where loosing is a tradition.

    The chargers frustrate the hell out of me when they loose in the playoffs but I was around for the shitty charger seasons and it is nowhere near as fun being a chargers fan as it is today, superbowl win or not....

    they are due for one though :-P
    Last edited by gottwins?; 01-13-2010 at 08:39 PM.

  16. #56
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    Again this is all my opinion.

    Typically, unless you're just a team fan, and not a sports fan you know when your team is good and when it's bad. If you don't know going in that your team isn't a Super Bowl caliber team then you're just one of those goofs who paints their face and thinks every move they make is the greatest move ever. I have no use for those type of fans. They are probably the same people telling their kid's coaches that their son is the best player on their team when the kid can't even catch.

    For me it's when the team is really good and they lose when they shouldn't that hurts. I can deal with 4-12 cause I know going into the season that they are rebuilding. I can deal with 8-8 and missing the playoffs if the team is on the right path. To play one more week after season ends doesn't make or break the year for me.

    Again that's just me. I make a conscious effort to see teams for what they are, not what the "experts" say, or getting swept up in a single loss or a single win. I grew up watching alot of football. And by that I mean alot. Not just Packer games. Every night football was on, I was most likely watching it. When you're parents were bookies, you tend to pay attention. lol I'm a football fan all year long. I pay attention to the draft, I watch and listen to what people have to say year long. So maybe my opinions are a little strong but I have my reasons for them. It's not like I have a vendetta against the Packers. Shit I'd love to see them win Super Bowls. But I just don't agree with their method of getting the job done. And until MM and TT put back to back years together I'm not going to believe in their approach. They seem to go as their strength of schedule goes so far.

    As for Marino and Kelly. How often do you hear Kelly's name mentioned with the greats? Almost never. Matter of fact I'm betting my mention of him is the first time you've heard his name in a long time. Marino, he's soon to be irrelevant. Between Manning and Favre he'll have no records and will be forgotten because he never got that ring. All he had were his records. You hear players all the time regret never winning that ring in all sports.
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  17. #57
    El Genio gottwins?'s Avatar
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    Well I would rather get into the Superbowl and loose than loose in the playoffs, and I would rather keep my head up that my team went to the superbowl and has the potential to get there and lost than put my head down with a shitty 4-12 team.

    Agree to disagree.
    Last edited by gottwins?; 01-13-2010 at 08:46 PM.

  18. #58
    Rather be junkyarding PB86MCSS's Avatar
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    and thinks every move they make is the greatest move ever.
    Or the fans who in effort to sound like they actually know sports and how a team operates, criticize every move . Not saying you, you know your stuff...but many talking heads and fans act this way without having a clue of how things really work.

    The chargers frustrate the hell out of me when they loose in the playoffs but I was around for the shitty charger seasons and it is nowhere near as fun being a chargers fan as it is today, superbowl win or not....
    I think you have it in great perspective, which is how I think I see it too. It's all opinion after all, but having a competitive Playoff team is a hell of alot more entertaining than a crap team you think/hope is rebuilding. I think its fun to watch a team really build, the last team I followed alot like this was the Buccaneers...and once they won it all, I felt like I didn't like them as much anymore. (Yes, I was a Bills fan from ages 10-20 or so, Buccaneers from 14-23 or so, Packers from 23 onward, I'd say, I'm 29 now....call me weird). Part of it was the change in their head coach and getting a knob like Keyshawn Johnson, but it was fun to watch a young team grow into a good team and then win it all. I'm getting off point, if your'e team is clearly building the right way, 4-12 I can live with. But most 4-12 teams aren't going in the right direction, either going downward or still making crappy decisions. Or having to start over with a new GM/coach and hoping they have the answers...and half the time they won't. If all you care about is the Super Bowl, or other championship, I think you tend to lose sight of the ride to get there, that is where most of the fun lies, IMO.

    Marino will always be considered one of the very very best QB's, ring or not. Kelly is a Hall of Famer, so he has his props and I doubt he'd trade any of his career ring or not, for anything else. Who remembers Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien or Brad Johnson? Winning a title is icing on the cake of a career, IMO. Doesn't make it or break it. It's a team effort, if an individual player is judged on a team goal then a person isn't really thinking it through.

    or getting swept up in a single loss or a single win
    This kind of goes against what you are saying though...if you see a team for how they really are not getting swept up on a single loss or win, then if your favorite team loses the Super Bowl you realize they are still a very good team . That's how I see it too, winning a single game, no matter how big it is, doesn't take away the fact it is still typically a very good team to get that far in the first place, etc.
    Last edited by PB86MCSS; 01-13-2010 at 09:26 PM.
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  19. #59
    Not to be taken serious Karps TA's Avatar
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    By single win, I mean regular season of course.

    Here's an example. The Colts over the last decade. They've won more regular season games then anyone. But typically end up 1 game on out in the playoffs. In that entire time only 1 super bowl appearance and win. As a fan I'd be frustrated that my team keeps having great regular seasons, but doesn't do shit in the playoffs. If they are done after the first playoff game, who cares what their regular season was like.

    Or the Jet's who only made the playoffs because the last 2 weeks they played teams who didn't need to play to win. So they were handed a playoff spot. Does them making the playoffs really mean as much as say a Dallas who played their asses off to get in?
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  20. #60
    5.0... It's what's for dinner. GTO RLY?'s Avatar
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    I think we had a good season regardless... look at the progress Rogers & company have made over the past two seasons. We were the most penalized team in the NFL, yet we made it to the playoffs in week 15. Next year I think a shot at the NFC championship is feasible, assuming we ditch our PAT dunce.

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