Favre Completes Revenge

[TraceDaddy]

Was it really that dumb of an idea? It seemed so at the time but where where those guys 2-3 years later while teams still had to spend 3-4 million per year?

Call me a nut hugger but ripping him for not "being-a-winner" at this point in his career is stupid. Make that argument 5-6 years from now if he hasn't done anything....even then remember a QB is one player on a team of 56(?) guys. They can't win them alone.

Favre haters and Favre "nut huggers" don't get it. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Favre played under a great coach and GM for the first half of his career, that helps. I realize people are emotionally tied to him, I like him alot too, he symbolizes the change, hope and winning teams Packer fans had starting in 92' when the whole team and front office was revamped.

Yeah it seemed so at the time. Even without the benefit of hindsight. You don't ditch 40% of your line and expect there is not going to be repercussions. Even if one of them is out of football in 3 years, you can then replace them after you have the other spot suitably filled.

And who has time to wait for 5-6 years? Brett inherited a team that was 4-12 in 1991. In 1992, after he arrived, they were 9-7. Favre presided over 1 losing season in the next 16. Rodgers inherited a 13-3 team and in his first year dropped to 6-10. There are plenty of QB's who proved their mettle in quick order. Matt Ryan took a pretty crap team and did well. I don't remember the exact timing but Roethlisberger did some good things quickly and it wasn't long ago that the Steelers put together some pretty nasty seasons as well.

Favre may have benefited from some good front office management. But think about this. He's won with Holmgren, Rhodes, Sherman, and McCarthy as coaches. Wolfe, Sherman and Thompson as GM's. Hell Harlan and Murphy as presidents too.

Rodgers has not been thrown to the wolves. He had several seasons to learn the system before ever starting. He has been placed in the MOST beneficial postion to succeed and he hasn't. Stats mean nothing. Jon Kitna put up huges numbers for the Lions. He still didn't win.

[fivonut]

Yeah it seemed so at the time. Even without the benefit of hindsight. You don't ditch 40% of your line and expect there is not going to be repercussions. Even if one of them is out of football in 3 years, you can then replace them after you have the other spot suitably filled.

And who has time to wait for 5-6 years? Brett inherited a team that was 4-12 in 1991. In 1992, after he arrived, they were 9-7. Favre presided over 1 losing season in the next 16. Rodgers inherited a 13-3 team and in his first year dropped to 6-10. There are plenty of QB's who proved their mettle in quick order. Matt Ryan took a pretty crap team and did well. I don't remember the exact timing but Roethlisberger did some good things quickly and it wasn't long ago that the Steelers put together some pretty nasty seasons as well.

Favre may have benefited from some good front office management. But think about this. He's won with Holmgren, Rhodes, Sherman, and McCarthy as coaches. Wolfe, Sherman and Thompson as GM's. Hell Harlan and Murphy as presidents too.

Rodgers has not been thrown to the wolves. He had several seasons to learn the system before ever starting. He has been placed in the MOST beneficial postion to succeed and he hasn't. Stats mean nothing. Jon Kitna put up huges numbers for the Lions. He still didn't win.

I started reading all that, then found myself mesmerized by your avatar...

[Reverend Cooper]

I love all the excuses Rodgers gets. What was the excuse last year? The team he took over was essentially the same team as the year before that went 13-3. And he won 6 games. Same O Line, Same Defense.

Like Favre never played with a bad Defense, or a bad O Line, or bad RB's. For a guy who made so many bad decisions funny how he won so many games and got the team to the playoffs as much as he did.

I'd understand the Rodgers nut hugging if he actually accomplished something. But the guy hasn't won jack shit besides beating a bunch of bad teams. Rodgers may end up being a great QB someday. But he's far from doing anything so far but put up some personal stats. BFD, he should be able to with those WR's.

dont forget 2 of the wins were against a winless detroit team also.

[badass88gt]

I have just a couple of questions:

Why even bother comparing Brent to Aaron? They are not the same caliber of player, the only thing they have in common is they both play QB. Comparing them to each other is pointless. In the grand scheme of things, Rodgers has MILES to go before he will ever be a Brent Favre.

Why bother blaming Rodgers for their shitty season? He's not out there by himself, he has nothing to do with the retarded amount of penalties this year, he has nothing to do with the lack of defensive pressure (no sacks and NO INT's for Brent???), he as nothing to do with the lack of protection. Does he sometimes hold the ball too long? Yep, but I also saw a few where NO QB could have gotten rid of the ball, they came at him so damn fast.

Really, what is the big deal about the Viqueens beating the Packers? So a dominant 7-1 team has beaten the equivilant of a College football team, and an average college team at that. BFD.

[Reverend Cooper]

Ah yes,but had A-rog beat the Vikings you would never hear the end of it.

[badass88gt]

True, it would have been "Student beats the Teacher".

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

[PB86MCSS]

Favre, er the Packers, were 8-8 under Rhodes. Rhodes and Sherman benefited greatly from the Holmgren/Wolfe era and roster which trickled over/down, then Sherman slowly had it rot away. I'm not going to defend Thompson here, I agree with some moves and not with many others. Wolfe made some bad moves too just like any other GM but obviously was more successful. Favres numbers were much better in the Holmgren years if you break them down.

I guess I feel for Rodgers since he is in a tough spot with the Favre lovers, for whom he can never impress unless he puts up 16 seasons of overall outstanding football and wins at least one Super Bowl. That doesn't happen too often. The guy can play, give him more credit than the tired line of "he has good numbers but can't win". I'll look forward to seeing what people think a few years from now. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I doubt it. We have one of the best young QB's in the game, appreciate it.

As for Ryan doing well right away, well the NFL is full of parity in the last decade about. Teams go from 6-10 to 10-6 and vice versa all the time...and Ryan isn't playing too well this year either. Not saying he won't do well but again, the credit/blame on QB's is more than it should be.

[badass88gt]

I heard on the radio Rodgers was skipping practice this week due to sore ribs and being generally banged up. He won't last to Week 15 at this rate, I dont think ANY quarterback could.

[theavenger333]

You play for the Packers?

it is we... WE own them. i own stock as well, so yes, WE.


as for revenge, the only ultimate revenge, to "complete" it would be win a super bowl. IMO the only way his comeback (again) can be called a success is a super bowl win.

[HITMAN]

it is we... WE own them. i own stock as well, so yes, WE.


as for revenge, the only ultimate revenge, to "complete" it would be win a super bowl. IMO the only way his comeback (again) can be called a success is a super bowl win.

Well, then I guess Brett is going to be a big failure and should go and kill himself, because Tampa Bay will probably win another Super Bowl before the Viqueens do.

[70 cutlass 442]

I heard on the radio Rodgers was skipping practice this week due to sore ribs and being generally banged up. He won't last to Week 15 at this rate, I dont think ANY quarterback could.

maybe he should have thrown that ball away a few times instead of just loosing more and more yards due to sacks......

[TraceDaddy]

I started reading all that, then found myself mesmerized by your avatar...

She is rather attractive isn't she?

[gottwins?]

Yeah it seemed so at the time. Even without the benefit of hindsight. You don't ditch 40% of your line and expect there is not going to be repercussions. Even if one of them is out of football in 3 years, you can then replace them after you have the other spot suitably filled.

And who has time to wait for 5-6 years? Brett inherited a team that was 4-12 in 1991. In 1992, after he arrived, they were 9-7. Favre presided over 1 losing season in the next 16. Rodgers inherited a 13-3 team and in his first year dropped to 6-10. There are plenty of QB's who proved their mettle in quick order. Matt Ryan took a pretty crap team and did well. I don't remember the exact timing but Roethlisberger did some good things quickly and it wasn't long ago that the Steelers put together some pretty nasty seasons as well.

Favre may have benefited from some good front office management. But think about this. He's won with Holmgren, Rhodes, Sherman, and McCarthy as coaches. Wolfe, Sherman and Thompson as GM's. Hell Harlan and Murphy as presidents too.

Rodgers has not been thrown to the wolves. He had several seasons to learn the system before ever starting. He has been placed in the MOST beneficial postion to succeed and he hasn't. Stats mean nothing. Jon Kitna put up huges numbers for the Lions. He still didn't win.

I agree with most of this but you have to understand that favre is a future hall of fame quarterback. Rodgers is a good quarterback and his "stats" prove it...hes not great though...he does not strike fear in teams when its the 4th quarter with 2 minutes left and he has the ball like payton manning or tom brady when the game comes down to their arm and decision making. In order for a "good" quarterback to succeed in the NFL he needs the surrounding cast to win games eg a good running game. A great quarterback can carry the team to a victory when it counts.

Thankfully Rivers is starting to get there now that LT is showing some ware and tare and can carry the bolts on his back as long as our damn defense can play.

[badass88gt]

She is rather attractive isn't she?

Who is she, do you know?

[Karps TA]

McCarthy benefitted from players Sherman left him. Shit it is driving TT nuts right now that he has to go back and rely on Clifton and Tauscher because he still can't draft OL.

I find it funny that just now fans and media are finally coming around to what I've been saying for the last 4 years. Thompson sucks at his job and McCarthy can't coach. You don't have to be an NFL genius to see that. Thompson's method of building entirely from the draft would be awesome if he could fucking draft. But he can't. His track record is god awful. His first round picks are non factors. He's yet to actually fix one position on the team that was bad when he came in. Even Rodgers, had he been forced to start in his first 2 years would have been a diasaster and he'd be Joey Harrington right now. He was not a Joe Flacco, or a Matt Ryan, or even a Mark Sanchez coming out of colllege. Had he come out a year earlier or a year later he wouldn't have even gone first day. But Rodgers got to sit for a couple years, learn the system, fix his horrible mechanics and then got to come out and play with perhaps the best WR core in the league. He was basically handed the keys to a NFC Championship team, and proceeded to win 6 games, 4 of them against horrible teams. Only teams he beat were MN and Indy, which are great wins.

And yes if Rodgers beat Favre, everybody would be making the comparison. So it is fair to compare the 2.

In the end Favre wanted out of Green Bay because he and Thompson/McCarthy have fundamental differences on how to build a winning team. TT and MM believe it is coaching that makes the players and the teams. Where as Favre believes great players make winning teams. He wanted to go to MN, cause he saw them doing what he believed in. Going out and getting proven talent to be a winner. Not hoping you can coach an athelete into being a player.

The more fans just give TT and MM a pass, the more likely the Packer's will become the Cubs. Great fan base being taken advantage of.

[Exitspeed]

^
So there's a lotta valid points in there and a lot of bitching, but why don't you do something about it if you feel so strongly?

Go make a Facebook page and organize an event at Lambaeu to get TT out of there. (I'd go)

I agree that I want TT out, but bitching about it on here isn't going to do anything.

I dont' understand how The Packers are supposed to be owned by the fans, all the fans hate TT, but he's still there. How does that work, and is there really anything we can do about it?

[Karps TA]

There's not alot you can do as a fan besides try and affect their pocketbook. But Packer fans are going to eat up Packer merchandise like they always do because some people believe that as a fan they have to be a fan and accept whatever garbage they are given.

There's already a hundred fire TT and MM sites. I mostly do something by writing to the national sports writers and bitching to them. Anything beyond that, and my ideas would get me put into jail. It literally kills me to see the team going in the direction it has been. I love football season more then anything.

[TraceDaddy]

Who is she, do you know?

Margaret Nolan apparently.

http://brewcitymuscle.com/forum/show...ghlight=avatar

[TraceDaddy]

And I will be Packer fan no matter who our QB is. You take the good with the bad. But I reserved the right to complain about aspects of them and TT would be one of those "Ass"pects.

[DirtyMax]

TT and MM are both douche canoes. Sherman was no Ron Wolf but he was better than today's version of Beavis and Butthead. Hell, they should have just given Holmgren the reins. He made a winner out of Seattle with little to no talent over there. I hear he's itching to come back.. I'd say the Packers should roll out the bandwagon and get him back here.