Need head gaskets done on my 4.6 DOHC:

[1320PNY]

That 4 cam has to suck to do in the car when I mess with mine it will be on a stand.

OK, sidebar: I don't mean to jack up this thread, but what motor are we talking about. I was under the assumption the 4.6L DOHC was a 2V, 3V, or 4V motor with two camshafts? So is there a Ford motor that has twin cams on each cylinder bank? Someone PM me if I'm a dipshit.

[RanJer]

OK, sidebar: I don't mean to jack up this thread, but what motor are we talking about. I was under the assumption the 4.6L DOHC was a 2V, 3V, or 4V motor with two camshafts? So is there a Ford motor that has twin cams on each cylinder bank? Someone PM me if I'm a dipshit.

The 4.6 DOHC is Dual Over Head Cam per cylinder bank. (4 cam)

The 4.6 SOHC (GTs/Crown Vics/etc) is Single Over Head Cam per cylinder bank. (2 cam)

2V and 3V's are SOHC, 4V's are DOHC.

[1320PNY]

Ok, thanks. I guess I was confused at the whole SOHC having two cams, but makes sense that there's at least 1 cam per valve bank. It's been a long day!

[Keyser Zosig]

Thanks guys for the replys, it looks as though my brother is consulting a friend of his thats big into mod motors to come do an inspection for me to fully diagnose what I am looking at.

I would assume that I diagnosed this correct, as the oil was milky brown last season when I pulled it out of storage and the coolant level was slightly down. I changed it and drove on it for a while checking it regularly and it held up so I thought maybe it was just moisture from sitting (indoors in a insulated garage).

However last week I took a glance under the hood and saw yet again the oil was milky brown and the coolant was down. Its staying in storage till the salt is off the roads, so I have a couple weeks yet before I would transport it to a shop.

Tearing a 4 cam down is going to be quite an ordeal, and I am contemplating what else I should get done while its apart (cams, head work, clutch if the motor comes out). I will start with a thorough inspection, but if it looks like my assumptions are correct than I am going to want this done right away.

This is my cherry summer vert daily driver, so quality over timely work.

Thanks again guys, will post what my inspection reveals when I find out.

[RanJer]

If you're gonna tear her down... might as well build her up... (if cash allows)

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Ford calls the 4 cam a DOHC, GM calls a 4 cam a TWIN DUAL CAM wtf.

[1320PNY]

Exactly. I used to be a GM guy, this is my first Ford.

[Car Guy]

Ford calls the 4 cam a DOHC, GM calls a 4 cam a TWIN DUAL CAM wtf.

Ford refers to it for each head and GM is for the engine as a whole, I'm thinking it has to do with how their engines 'evolved'.....

[Reverend Cooper]

Thanks guys for the replys, it looks as though my brother is consulting a friend of his thats big into mod motors to come do an inspection for me to fully diagnose what I am looking at.

I would assume that I diagnosed this correct, as the oil was milky brown last season when I pulled it out of storage and the coolant level was slightly down. I changed it and drove on it for a while checking it regularly and it held up so I thought maybe it was just moisture from sitting (indoors in a insulated garage).

However last week I took a glance under the hood and saw yet again the oil was milky brown and the coolant was down. Its staying in storage till the salt is off the roads, so I have a couple weeks yet before I would transport it to a shop.

Tearing a 4 cam down is going to be quite an ordeal, and I am contemplating what else I should get done while its apart (cams, head work, clutch if the motor comes out). I will start with a thorough inspection, but if it looks like my assumptions are correct than I am going to want this done right away.

This is my cherry summer vert daily driver, so quality over timely work.

Thanks again guys, will post what my inspection reveals when I find out.

the side job guys in here should tell you to drain the oil and coolant,leaving the mix in it is bad news even if just sitting.

[Sprayaway Fox]

Throw some auto shop sealtabs (brown fiber circles) in it and call it a day. Sounds like your SOL.

[70 cutlass 442]

the side job guys in here should tell you to drain the oil and coolant,leaving the mix in it is bad news even if just sitting.

Ok, well since i am one of the side job guys.....

Here is what you should have done last year when you had this issue.... drain the oil immidatley, do the HG, run fresh oil though it, then do another oil change........ but to be honest with you. the car has sit this long already and any damage that could have been caused by having antifreeze mixed with the oil was probably already done if there was any damage even done. Unfortunatley, you let it sit almost all winter so even draining it 2 weeks ago would probably not have cahanged anything... I personally would have had that motor tore apart within in 2 days after i noticed the headgasket was bad, but i realize not everyone has thoes kind of resources.... that being said..... its probably not worth freezing your ass off to draing the oil out of the pan at this point anyways.... i mean what good will it do? the residual oil that is left between the rod and main journals will still be there weather or not there is oil in the pan....... unless of course the 4.6 bottom end was modled after a briggs and stratton where they have a need to submerge part of the rod to sling oil everywhere (sarcasim) but what would i know? im just a side jobber

[Reverend Cooper]

well maybe as a side jobber you should tell him that the poss. of crank and rod bearing damage is there now,not just take it apart on a budget like he obviously has then drop the bomb when its in pieces.Not to mention the poss. issue of head and or block pitting. JMHO Reputable business tell there customers this to avoid headaches,on the business' part and the consumers part. again JMHO

[Breecher_7]

well maybe as a side jobber you should tell him that the poss. of crank and rod bearing damage is there now,not just take it apart on a budget like he obviously has then drop the bomb when its in pieces.Not to mention the poss. issue of head and or block pitting. JMHO Reputable business tell there customers this to avoid headaches,on the business' part and the consumers part. again JMHO

Technically the heads should be checked for straightness and so should the block deck.... Bad head gasket could have been caused by alot of things. This argument is just getting deeper and deeper... To be 100% sure you have found all possible damage, the engine has to come out. Period. But how many people are willing to go through that? Most will just slap new gaskets on it and hope it holds. Even the most reputable shop is not going to guarantee a set of head gaskets if they replace them unless the block and heads are checked a minimum... They cant. Because they could just leak or blow out again for reasons out of there control that had nothing to do with there repair job.

[Reverend Cooper]

most reputable shops have a straight edge to check straightness of the headgasket,if they know what to look for they can see on the gasket why or where it failed. Im not arguing at all about what or why they failed,my point is advise YOUR customer what they maybe getting into besides just gaskets.

[Breecher_7]

most reputable shops have a straight edge to check straightness of the headgasket,if they know what to look for they can see on the gasket why or where it failed. Im not arguing at all about what or why they failed,my point is advise YOUR customer what they maybe getting into besides just gaskets.

We defnitily agree here....

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Piss on it, junk it. Cars all shot.

[Keyser Zosig]

Hmm, maybe its time to trade the old 98 in on a terminator. What kind of damage does coolant in oil really do? I mean in everyone's opinion is it worth ripping apart if the lower end has been subject to this on two occasions?

Love my car and all, but my dad said it best "you can't polish a turd". I sure as hell don't want to be rebuilding this thing anytime soon, the car has 50K on it. Will see what happens when I get it inspected, but nonetheless the oil has been milky both times I went to change it coming out of storage.

[70 cutlass 442]

Hmm, maybe its time to trade the old 98 in on a terminator. What kind of damage does coolant in oil really do? I mean in everyone's opinion is it worth ripping apart if the lower end has been subject to this on two occasions?

Love my car and all, but my dad said it best "you can't polish a turd". I sure as hell don't want to be rebuilding this thing anytime soon, the car has 50K on it. Will see what happens when I get it inspected, but nonetheless the oil has been milky both times I went to change it coming out of storage.

well before other board members scare you into selling your car i will explain as mush as i can....

First things first..... You need to find out WHY the head gasket went, if there were many miles on the car, then there is a chance that they could just have gone because of high millage.... if that is not the case you need to check things out..... was the car ever severley over heated? If so that can warp heads easily and cause the fire ring to become weak and therefore allow coolant to pass into the motor. Im assuming there was no boost on this car but if there was we would have to look at other things along that line... The DOHC heads had smaller combustion chambers then the normal 2v heads of that year which ups the compression which in turn means you would need to run a better fuel Ie. 92 octane, could you have ran really poor fuel thorgh it and caused detonation? the knock sensor would have picked that up and should have adjusted timing properly but did that for sure happen? and as for checking for straight ness.... well every head that i do is resurfaced regardless so that takes the guess work out of that. then the block is checked which with a aluminium head, you RARELY see any damage to the block when a HG goes, I clean the surface to abre metal, runs a straight edge and feeler gauge over it and check for any warpage... on a deck anyhting within a couple thousanths is usualy ok. OEM specs on some motors are up to .005, but I think its safe to say your block is fine, non the less, I check that once the heads are off and deck surface is cleaned up.


As for Coolant in the oil.... on all the rod, main, and cam bearigns, there is a coating that is applied over the copper to eliminate friction. the coolant will eat that coating off and cause premature bearing failure. Its hard to tell as many motors are saved in time to prevent this damage, but you could pull the motor if it makes you sleep better, otherwise you may be able ot lower the K and sneak the pan out and pop a rod cap off and check for bearing failure.

Beleive me, I advise anyone who has this issue as far as the possibilities of bottom end issues, I did a pair of HGs on a Intrepid for a board member here and we did talk in depth about the bottem end.

how about some more info on the car... has its been boosted? any spray? any check engine lights on? did you notice if the oil read abnormally high on the dipstick? (would indicate how bad of a HG leak there is)

[70 cutlass 442]

well maybe as a side jobber you should tell him that the poss. of crank and rod bearing damage is there now,not just take it apart on a budget like he obviously has then drop the bomb when its in pieces.Not to mention the poss. issue of head and or block pitting. JMHO Reputable business tell there customers this to avoid headaches,on the business' part and the consumers part. again JMHO

most reputable shops have a straight edge to check straightness of the headgasket,if they know what to look for they can see on the gasket why or where it failed. Im not arguing at all about what or why they failed,my point is advise YOUR customer what they maybe getting into besides just gaskets.

That is why i listed a phone number in my first response, to discuss all the options and possibilities.... And looking at a HG WILL NOT tell you why it failed, it will simpaly show you wehere it failed, and for roughly how long the fire ring has been damaged.

[Keyser Zosig]

My svt is a 50K mile car thats completely stock. I never ran boost or excessively even drove the car hard (thats what my Z is for). I kept this car stock to have a civil weekend convertable to commute and go on vacation with and hardly ever even wound it up. Never had any check engine lights, nor has it overheated in my possesion. I maybe put 5K miles on the car since I bought it.

Never noticed the oil level go noticably high on the dipstick, which makes me wonder what I am dealing with now. The only time the oil got milky was when the car sat for a long period of time. Always been a garaged car in my possession, sits right next to my Z in a dry atmosphere all winter.

Unfortunately I have no way of tracking the history of the car. Other than changing the spark plugs back to factory style, I haven't messed with this thing.

I will drop the oil the next chance I get, see how milky it is and check on how much coolant is missing.

If I end up needing to do the hg's, might as well pull the engine and check the lower end. I hate to half ass anything, cutting corners isn't my way. I know the clutch is aged and could probably use a replacement (IMO), so I might want to throw that onto the pile.

This is how it starts, before you know it I am camming it and building a terminator lower end for it (getting bored with a stock car anyways).