Defense rounds

[Lash]

I would disagree my 45 would prolly tear your arm off or close to it

I bet you'd only see a smaller than dime size entry and a penny size exit. Arm still in place FMJ's leave clean entry and exit wounds. A good penetrating HP will tear you the f*** up.


The FMJ cant even tear up a plastic milk container...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaXcX...eature=related

[Reverend Cooper]

sure a plastic milk container has no mass,the pumpkins we shot this summer had teeny entries and a four inch hole out the back,im not denying a hollow point is destructive,but unless youve been shot by one or the other really can any of you say what it will or wont do,when that fmj hits you shoulder bone and explodes let me know how that feels. plus im a good shot so if you get hit in the face you die anyway lol

[HITMAN]

.38 special +P blue tip Glaser Safety Slugs. 80grain pre-fragmented copper jacket filled with #12 shot, traveling at 1250fps. Any hit will maim or kill without having to worry about killing my neighbors. No over penetration, no ricochets, it just dumps the load in the target or self-destructs in a wall or off of a hard surface. A head shot would be VERY ugly indeed...

[Breecher_7]

Coop im gonna have to agree with the other guys. Ive seen .45 gunshot wounds before and like I said, they go right through pretty clean. Unless you hit a bone head on, they usually are not that messy. in and out. Regardless of how big the round is. Hell ive seen .50 cal wounds that you would think were done by a 30 cal round. Ive unfortunatly seen way to many dead arabs in my lifetime.

[Reverend Cooper]

Its cool, I really dont think if the rounds I use hit the target that they will stay around to long. Im not dissin' hollow poiints,I guess I just have enough confidence in the weapon,ammo and owner/operator that I will be fine, if I really need to the shotty is right there to with 00 in it.

[Breecher_7]

If you hit the person, the odds of them surviving is slim regardless of the ammo. But also, regardless of how good a shot you think you are.. When darkness, pannic, and uncertainty are involved, it can make the best marksman a worthless target. I will never forget the first time my unit took live fire, it took me a good solid 10 seconds before I realised what was going on. Its the initial shock of "is this really happening"? After a while I became numb to it, but the first time it happens, look out.

[Taetsch Z-24]

Ive unfortunatly seen way to many dead arabs in my lifetime.

Didn't know that was possible.......................

Chris

[Breecher_7]

Didn't know that was possible.......................

Chris

Mabey you prefer to many dead american soldiers....

Bullets dont discriminate....

[ND4SPD]

Let's see... in the M2 and Model 12... 2-3/4" 00 Buckshot, and in the USP .45... Winchester Ranger Lawman +P (basically +P Black Talons). The M4 has 5.56 Federal FMJ, and can't remember what's in the M1 clips. Remington .30-06 something. I used to have CorBon 230gr +P, but I ended up using those up blasting pop cans and full milk jugs with them. Was way too much fun comparing the standard .45 loads to the Cor Bon +Ps.

The reason FMJ is used in "civilized" conflict is because exactly as Breecher said, the FMJs go right through... wounding, instead of killing. They don't spend their energy inside the body cavity the way a hollow-point does. This does have the advantage of taking what... three people out of action instead of just one, since you need an additional 1 to 3 people to treat said wounded. This of course was back in the days when you had primarily uniformed armies fighting each other. If we're going to be fighting Jihadists... who's primary aspiration is to die in service to Allah, maybe we need to switch to expanding projectiles.

By the way people... you just wait and watch. The libs, ACLU, and the like want to extend constitutional rights given to American Citizens to enemy combatants. What's next? Geneva Convention protections for domestic criminals? Can't use hollow points to protect yourself and your family anymore... you need to use FMJs in hopes to only "wound" the home invader.

[Breecher_7]

By the way people... you just wait and watch. The libs, ACLU, and the like want to extend constitutional rights given to American Citizens to enemy combatants. What's next? Geneva Convention protections for domestic criminals? Can't use hollow points to protect yourself and your family anymore... you need to use FMJs in hopes to only "wound" the home invader.

Geneva Convention Now thats funny.... I dont know of any country that abides by the Geneva Convention's rules of detaining a prisoner of war.... Other then the US, and even we are treading a thin line in most cases.

War doesnt have rules, Plain and simple.... Some people would like to believe it does..

Especially my favorite ones, The Rules of Engagement.. yeah, ok

[STANMAN]

If I was going to use a 1911 for home defense, it would have what Coop has in his, that's what they are made to shoot, and they tend to get finicky with HP's from all the shooting I have done. Granted, a good mag (Wilson), and a nicely tuned 1911 will shoot just about anything, but one thing that is 100% critical in a self defense gun is reliability. That's why I have 2 Glocks in my bedroom gun safe, one with a M6 tactical laser/light combo, and one with Trijicon night sites, and then there's the Remington 870 behind the door if there's more fun to be had than the Glocks can handle.

[Breecher_7]

If I was going to use a 1911 for home defense, it would have what Coop has in his, that's what they are made to shoot, and they tend to get finicky with HP's from all the shooting I have done. Granted, a good mag (Wilson), and a nicely tuned 1911 will shoot just about anything, but one thing that is 100% critical in a self defense gun is reliability. That's why I have 2 Glocks in my bedroom gun safe, one with a M6 tactical laser/light combo, and one with Trijicon night sites, and then there's the Remington 870 behind the door if there's more fun to be had than the Glocks can handle.

The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

[STANMAN]

The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

Yep, that's me, just a bunch of cheap junk in my safes Usually the more modified a gun is, the harder time it has to shoot the hollow points (unless it's modded as a defense gun that is, but most modded guns are competition guns). Like my 70 series Gold Cup won't shoot them at all, but that's not what it was made for, it was made for shooting 230 grain FMJ's, very accurately. Most modern 1911's are not made like the older 1911's and will shoot anything. My Kimber has no problems, nor most of my Springfield Armory's, my "classic" Springfield does, but again, it's made to shoot 230 grain ball. My WWI era Reminton Rand, it doesn't like them so much either

[STANMAN]

The only 1911's I own are Kimber Arms... The one that I have that is still factory has never had an issue with JHP's and the modified ones definitly dont. Did you have issues with cheapies or what? Id never use a 1911 for home defense anyways though...

And no, a 1911 would never be a home defense gun to me. They do make awesome carry weapons though, so slim and easy to conceal. Then again, if I were to pack, it would still be a .............guesses welcome

[Breecher_7]

And no, a 1911 would never be a home defense gun to me. They do make awesome carry weapons though, so slim and easy to conceal. Then again, if I were to pack, it would still be a .............guesses welcome

the plastic fantastic otherwise known as the Glock? I think youve got me wrong bob. I dont think the GLock is a bad gun.. I just dont like how it feels, to loose for my taste.

[Rocket Power]

the plastic fantastic otherwise known as the Glock?

Damn that's what I was gonna say

[ND4SPD]

If you want a .45 that won't jam, you need an HK. Out of mine, my brother's, and my friends there have only been two jams. Once on my buddy's when he was using a CCI shot round, and once on my brother's using garbage Wolf ammo.

[Silver86]

[STANMAN]

If you want a .45 that won't jam, you need an HK. Out of mine, my brother's, and my friends there have only been two jams. Once on my buddy's when he was using a CCI shot round, and once on my brother's using garbage Wolf ammo.

As in the USP? It's a nicer version of a Glock. I am suprised you had it jam on you with the Wolf. Yeah, it is steel cased and you can't reload it obviously, but other than that it's decent ammo. HK's are generally the same as Glocks, very non finicky when it comes to ammo. Odd.

[Taetsch Z-24]

Mabey you prefer to many dead american soldiers....

Bullets dont discriminate....

Wrong.


Did not know we could kill enough of them.


Chris