So when does Brett start the crying routine?

[TraceDaddy]

chad had same situation, issue is too much expectation for ridgers. MORE should have been on favre. Your telling me in his reign, he never studied other offenses to get tips and figure out what works? most times he called his own plays. he couldnt have been that good without knowing how other systems work. every offensive coord stole plays from other systems just like dfenses do.

Again...Yoo. Have you played the game? How confident can you be calling an audible if you're not POSITIVE that a Gun Scoop Option against a 4-4 defense doesn't compromise your FB's route. AND he KNOWS that.

Yes I know it's not something run in an NFL offense. Go with me.

Running what's by the book is one thing. Making a play when the called play breaks down is another.

But it can be the difference between winning and losing when your team is losing by less than 7 points.

[Reverend Cooper]

I'm a 4 sport guy too. And no I did not grow up in Wind Lake. (Sorry PM86) I'm a military guy who happened to be lucky and live near SF when Joe Montana was the QB. He WAS my all-time favorite until I came home to WI and watched Brett. Joe is still the smoothest ever. He's the only non-Packer in my rec room. But even in the age he was and the team he was able to keep around him, he didn't have as many wins as Brett.

And Avenger, I'll agree you can't use wins as the sole measuring stick for a QB's greatness. (Trent Dilfer has as many rings.) A team around him is just as important. Let me ask you this. How many other Hall of Famers do you see, besides Reggie White, on the Packers since 1992? I won't ask how many receivers are worthy of the Packers Hall of Fame because even Billy Schroeder caught over 1000 yards from Brett.

As far as the system. Brett did much better early when they didn't expect him to know the system and "dummied" it down for him. Once he was expected to play within it, the wheels feel off. I'll agree that Brett is not a conventional QB. I won't agree that it's not a good thing.

Overall 2008 stats. No question. Rodgers wins. Let's say GB keeps Brett and Aaron goes to NY. What are his stats? Just guessing...

The last line is my exact thoughts and what i have been telling Yoo.

[badass88gt]

How many games this year did the Packers play where they had the lead midway through the 4th quarter and lost that lead? I'm looking for a number.

Lets look at this aspect.

The Packers lost Cullen Jenkins to a chest injury early in the season and later Nick Barnett to a knee injury. Atari Bigby was hurt all season and never seemed quite right, even when he was on the field. KGB couldn't regain his speed following knee surgery in the offseason and was waived. Justin Harrell (whom the Packers were counting on after their decision to trade Corey Williams to Cleveland in the offseason) was slowed by injuries for the second straight season.

Would the Packers be back in the playoffs if the defense was healthy?

The secondary was the defense's best unit, but couldn't always make up for a pass rush that was almost nonexistent outside of Aaron Kampman. The run defense was also a consistent disappointment.

Seems to me the major culprit was an injury-riddled defense that gave up big plays in bunches and struggled to hold on to fourth-quarter leads week after week.

Another fact I find interesting: This year the Packers piled up 419 points, seventh best in team history. In counting 419 points, Green Bay was not far from the 435 points it got last year. McCarthy’s team scored 48 touchdowns in both instances.

The difference lies in the number of points given up. Last year, the Packers allowed 291. This year, the total ballooned to 380, tied for fifth most in team history.

Lets continue to look at Rodgers for someone to blame.

[TraceDaddy]

A couple things though.

I agree that our defense was not up to par. Ranked 20th in the league.

Of those 419 points scored this year, the defense was responsible for 63. I don't give the offense credit for scoring those.

In 2004 our defense also gave up 380 points and was ranked 25th in the league. Our record? 10-6. In 1992, Favre's first year, the defense was ranked 23rd, though gave up "only" 296 points, and our record was 9-7.

Somehow. Someway. "We" were able to overcome and win.

Oh. In 1991, pre-Favre, the defense was ranked a respectable 10th. Our record 4-12.

We, as Packers fans, have been spoiled for so long we forgot what it's like to lose.

Let me re-word my point and maybe it will be clearer. I'm not blaming Rodgers for losing, I'm blaming him for not winning.

[Yooformula]

The last line is my exact thoughts and what i have been telling Yoo.

thats fine but remember Brett chose to leave. the only thing I say is not to judge this pretty much rookie qb YET.

and trace, yes I played football for many years in hs 17 years ago as a cornerback, strong safety and inside lb.

[PB86MCSS]

Overall 2008 stats. No question. Rodgers wins. Let's say GB keeps Brett and Aaron goes to NY. What are his stats? Just guessing...

True but like its said above, you have to also consider the circumstances whether or not to criticize, or not criticize Favre...he retired and whined when the team didn't beg for him back then un-retires and forced the issue. He and the team handled it poorly but how he handled it and his decision making affects how he is looked at. And Favre was never big into studying film anyways, I still remember the retirement press conference when he was complaining about studying film and game plans late at night like it was the hardest thing he had to do. Not exactly a student of the game....his style made him great but was also his weak point. That might be one reason he struggled in a new system too.

Not to get off topic but I think a QB's success or lack of is as much as a combination of the team, players around them, coaching and injuries more than any other position in sports as there are only 30 spots and not many opportunities. If Bledsoe never gets hurt does Brady go on to have the career he did? If Majkowski didn't get hurt or Favre go to a team with Holmgren does Favre ever have that career? Steve Young wasn't anything until he had a chance with a great 49ers team and system to support him. Kurt Warner always has looked good when he has a couple stud WR's and a pass happy offense. The QB still has to make plays and perform but it makes me wonder how many other guys could be good with an opportunity and how a few, IMO, had quite a bit of luck on their side. In other sports if you can play, you can play and will get your chance, pitching in baseball, basketball pretty much any position but QB at least in the NFL your chances are precious and it depends whats around you to look good.