Kalishnikov vs. Stoner

[STANMAN]

We have lots of gun people on this board.........discuss the pros and cons of each mans design.

[That_Guy]

I prefer the ak over the stoner just because im not really a fan of the mag positioning on the stoner. but it is cool how they made different mag designs. or mag less design..

[STANMAN]

I am talking about the Stoner that doesn't have his name on it, lol. His most famous design that Colt basically stole from him (he was working for Colt at the time).

[Russ Jerome]

Im bias, spent years late at night doing lines with Michael, Eugenes
son in MPLS. Michael is dead now but regardless Im still a AR10/15/M16
fan for life.

The design was ahead of its time, look at MOA auto designs today they
are all based of the Stoner 15/16 design. I remeber the hardest thing
about owning an M-16 based AR was finding a clip with enough spring
load to feed it fast enough not to jam...that a neat problem to have!

[That_Guy]

I am talking about the Stoner that doesn't have his name on it, lol. His most famous design that Colt basically stole from him (he was working for Colt at the time).

ohhhhhhhh idk the ak is still pretty reliable. its a coin toss

[MurphysLaw88GT]

The AR shits where it eats....but I like how bolt locks up into barrel extension. Love A2 sights and long sight radius of 20 inch models.ERGONOMICS!Ar has accuracy and utter flexability.The mags suck compared to other weapon systems. The only real limitation is the magwell dimensions on the M-16/AR-15. The lug nearest xtractor can someimes fail due to assymetrical forces placed on bolt, but I have never personally seen it.
Kalashnikov is utterly reliable, accuracy is much less than Stoner designs (but competant user can help), short sight radius/tangent rear sight can go to hell,but works, cheap, simple, nothing to break really. Easy to build from a kit in a garage. But the other Kalashnikov designs like PK-series (insert variation here) are excellent GPMGs.This is a debate that will never end, each have their own merits. I think I will take an FAL for a decent compromise in accuracy, and I dig 7.62x51mm and having a gas regulator, just dont like to pay for it.

I have an AR I am building, as well as many AK series in 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm. I like both designs, so I get both.

[STANMAN]

The AR shits where it eats....but I like how bolt locks up into barrel extension. Love A2 sights and long sight radius of 20 inch models.ERGONOMICS!Ar has accuracy and utter flexability.The mags suck compared to other weapon systems. The only real limitation is the magwell dimensions on the M-16/AR-15. Kalashnikov is utterly reliable, accuracy is much less than Stoner designs (but competant user can help), short sight radius/tangent rear sight can go to hell,but works, cheap, simple, nothing to break really. Easy to build from a kit in a garage. But the other Kalashnikov designs like PK-series (insert variation here) are excellent GPMGs.This is a debate that will never end, each have their own merits. I think I will take an FAL for a decent compromise in accuracy, and I dig 7.62x51mm and having a gas regulator, just dont like to pay for it.

I have an AR I am building, as well as many AK series in 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm. I like both designs, so I get both.

Uh oh, someone mentioned the FNFAL! Heavy bugger it is!!! If we are bringing up "other" weapons systems, give me a G3 over an FNFAL (I have both, lol).

For me, I like both, but if the world ended, I would take an AK over the AR I guess. 100% reliable (AR's can be to, but you have to keep them cleaner than an AK), durable as all get out, ammo and mags can be found just about anywhere, and hell, even stamped out sheet metal has to be better than aluminum right??? If it's not "apocolypse" time, give me the flexibility and accuracy of the AR platform any day!



Stoner never got the credit he deserved, and Mikail will die soon as a very poor man in mother Russia. Funny how the worlds 2 most popular assualt rifle designers follow similar paths. Mother Russia (and the 100's of knock offs that have followed) has profited from Mikail's masterpiece, and Colt got the patent to the AR for what boils down to Eugene's salary.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Yes...yes, delayed roller bowback is really simple/accurate operating system. I used to have one, but it went bye-bye for other things

[That_Guy]

my girlfriends uncle has a g3 its a freakin sweet rifle

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Uh oh, someone mentioned the FNFAL! Heavy bugger it is!!! If we are bringing up "other" weapons systems, give me a G3 over an FNFAL (I have both, lol).

For me, I like both, but if the world ended, I would take an AK over the AR I guess. 100% reliable (AR's can be to, but you have to keep them cleaner than an AK), durable as all get out, ammo and mags can be found just about anywhere, and hell, even stamped out sheet metal has to be better than aluminum right??? If it's not "apocolypse" time, give me the flexibility and accuracy of the AR platform any day!


Stoner never got the credit he deserved, and Mikail will die soon as a very poor man in mother Russia. Funny how the worlds 2 most popular assualt rifle designers follow similar paths. Mother Russia (and the 100's of knock offs that have followed) has profited from Mikail's masterpiece, and Colt got the patent to the AR for what boils down to Eugene's salary.

Agreed

[That_Guy]

i dont mind my sks... as my accurate russian made rifle but its no dragunov

[STANMAN]

i dont mind my sks... as my accurate russian made rifle but its no dragunov

Yeah, real SVD's are a little pricey, even for this cowboy. The PSO-1 scope, however, is not. So, if I want to play russian sniper I just throw the PSO on a regular AK and pretend it's an SVD

[Russ Jerome]

All the design flaws of the AR15/16 were due to the US Governmant and
what they wanted. When Eugene worked for Armalite he has a gas design
that used the 308 round (you know it as the AR-10 now) and they bowed
for the government contract.

Eugene Stoner knew exactly how the indestructable AK was designed and
knew he could do better. The modern Armalite AR-10 is as Eugene wanted
it when he penned it 40yrs ago.

I've seriously spent countless hours with his son Michael, he was an
incredible source of knowledge on his dad's ideas. His dad worked for
Armalite in the early 1950's http://www.armalite.com/default.aspx

[STANMAN]

All the design flaws of the AR15/16 were due to the US Governmant and
what they wanted. When Eugene worked for Armalite he has a gas design
that used the 308 round (you know it as the AR-10 now) and they bowed
for the government contract.

Eugene Stoner knew exactly how the indestructable AK was designed and
knew he could do better. The modern Armalite AR-10 is as Eugene wanted
it when he penned it 40yrs ago.

I've seriously spent countless hours with his son Michael, he was an
incredible source of knowledge on his dad's ideas. His dad worked for
Armalite in the early 1950's http://www.armalite.com/default.aspx

He then worked for Colt for a short period of time, and they basically shafted him by stealing his design correct? That's what's in everything I have ever read on the subject anyway. If there's more to the story, lets hear it!! Was his son as smart as Eugene was???

[MurphysLaw88GT]

I dig this Dutch AR-10 website

http://www.ar10.nl/

[Russ Jerome]

If there's more to the story, lets hear it!! Was his son as smart as Eugene was???

Well high speed power boats off the Florida coast was his speciialty, he
was definately a smart cookie....plenty of money but the adreniline of
playing Miami Vice was his hobby. Great guy, kill for his friends.

The common rumors are true, Eugene worked for Armalite and probably
designed the best rifle ever for the US Gov to see, the AR-10-308:
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...-ar-10-245442/
The internet has probaly got all the trivia but the end was Colt got the
contract and built a GUTTED version NOT THE ARMALITE AR-10 that Eugene
designed years earlier. Watch the tape above, Im told the mud test is not
setup and I know a military issue Colt will NOT FIRE after a bath like that.

I wish I wrote down all the stories Michael told about his dad Eugene, I
honestly never had any idea who I was partying with all those years!
I was 16 in MPLS (Im 45 now) and he was a close friend of my family who
had questionable buisness practices back then. Michael passed away in
NM after years of rehab and relapse, free spirit and cool as hell.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

Never handled either model, but from what I have read, the Stoner 62, 63A, and MK23 MOD 0 were pretty stout designs.

[STANMAN]

Well high speed power boats off the Florida coast was his speciialty, he
was definately a smart cookie....plenty of money but the adreniline of
playing Miami Vice was his hobby. Great guy, kill for his friends.

The common rumors are true, Eugene worked for Armalite and probably
designed the best rifle ever for the US Gov to see, the AR-10-308:
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...-ar-10-245442/
The internet has probaly got all the trivia but the end was Colt got the
contract and built a GUTTED version NOT THE ARMALITE AR-10 that Eugene
designed years earlier. Watch the tape above, Im told the mud test is not
setup and I know a military issue Colt will NOT FIRE after a bath like that.

I wish I wrote down all the stories Michael told about his dad Eugene, I
honestly never had any idea who I was partying with all those years!
I was 16 in MPLS (Im 45 now) and he was a close friend of my family who
had questionable buisness practices back then. Michael passed away in
NM after years of rehab and relapse, free spirit and cool as hell.

Man, I would have killed for that experiance, but then again I would have noticed the name right away and asked about it. Sounds like his son was quiet the partier, and he must have gotten his own money, because the way he got the shaft from Colt, he wasn't living on daddies money!!!

[Russ Jerome]

Michael had the biggest lifted trucks back back before
you could buy aftermarket stuff, he had custom Harleys
before it was cool. Michael walking thru your door was like
having a Hells Angel walk up, unshaved and driving a
new Trans Am.....he had no formal job if you know what
I mean.

Here is his dad and a friend:

Thats Eugene on the right, the little guy on the left built
a very reliable gun himself but by his own admission was
never designed to be a long range sniper gun.

I suppose now that Im old and no longer can party, Michael
is gone now I can say this: My 17th birthday present was
a LARGE plastic bag full of white stuff, we didnt have crack
or any other crap back then so it was a $3000 party favor.

I dont want to paint a dark picture of him, probably one
of the coolest guys I ever met. Like a few other friends I
have they will kill for you and your family, cross them or
there family and your not gonna hide far enough away.

[u_say_go]

gun talk is so boring! I used to work for a firearms distributor in milwaukee years ago and I quit from the shear boredom of gun talk.
I use a 1970's Mossberg 500 12ga. for trap, pheasant, and deer...and I NEVER miss. The gun is probably worth $10, but I'll smoke all you suckas shooting trap!