Car still missing intermitently

[GRM-REPR]

how much intial timing are you running?you may want to tighten the curve and add more initial to it.

If you're talking about what weight springs are in the dizzy, they are the ones that came stock installed in it, never played with the other springs.

You may also have a point here.

Just seems like ever since installing the new dizzy, it's been doing this goofy shit....

[Nix]

whats the "dyer zone" may I ask?

[Flight_740]

Nick ripped you off. Ask him for your money back.

[Nix]

Nick ripped you off. Ask him for your money back.

Sssshhhhhh Mike, dont give it up dude

[GRM-REPR]

Nick ripped you off. Ask him for your money back.

[Prince Valiant]

If you're talking about what weight springs are in the dizzy, they are the ones that came stock installed in it, never played with the other springs.

You may also have a point here.

Just seems like ever since installing the new dizzy, it's been doing this goofy shit....

What he's asking is what is your initial timing now (9-14 degrees BTDC), Your total (32-36 degrees BTDC) at full advance, and then what rpm you see your full advance by (ie, it stops advancing at 2600 rpm, etc)

[GRM-REPR]

What he's asking is what is your initial timing now (9-14 degrees BTDC), Your total (32-36 degrees BTDC) at full advance, and then what rpm you see your full advance by (ie, it stops advancing at 2600 rpm, etc)

I belive the springs in the dizzy now give 15* advance, plus a base of roughly 8*/9*, so about 23/24* total timing. That was all set last Sept, and I may be off a bit. It is not a vac advance dizzy, it's Mech advance.

I came on here last year and asked where the base should be set at, so it's set to about where everyone agreed to.

[Prince Valiant]

imo, you probably would want a total of around 34-38...probably want it all in by 2400 rpm too.

[GRM-REPR]

Update, my timing advance was way too low for this dizzy, I asked everyone here and the consensus was 8-10* base. Turns out I need to start at 20* base and play on the edge after that.

So I set it to 20* base, and futzed with the idle screws, it is a lot better, but it still acts goofy when it feels like it. Then I backed it into my storage unit and the engine had a small backfire out the the pipe (don't know which side) and I just got frustrated again. I put a new set of MSD wires on (thanks 25thanniversary) and thought it couldnt hurt. I put the tach wire to the MSD box (other owner thought it was a good idea to route a wire outside the car thru the cowl instead of putting into the box which is 2' away inside the car) and noticed I got "zapped" by the positive coil tower. I figure this shouldn't be normal, why would this happen? Everything on this engine is new, including all ignition components?

So I think I have all the issues solved (super hot plug wires, high engine temp, and the repeated destruction of the #6 cyl wire). I was told all this was caused by the timing being too retarded, and the car seems much better. It still stumbles a bit, and is boggy when I blip the gas while driving (carb i guess), 2k and under while cruising when it warms up causes a bucking issue.
Thoughts??????

[GRM-REPR]

Turns out also that the dizzy had the original curve springs still in it, it's my first time with one of these dizzy's. So I put the blue one/ and light silver one in it. Then I'm looming my wires and find a fuel leak at the hose going into the carb, don't know how long that has been going on.

[juicedimpss]

bring it by and i will look at it for ya,much easier to troubleshoot when its in front of you sometimes.

[GRM-REPR]

bring it by and i will look at it for ya,much easier to troubleshoot when its in front of you sometimes.

I would, if it ran better. You and I had some miscommunications last time, didn't think you were interested anymore.

[juicedimpss]

I would, if it ran better. You and I had some miscommunications last time, didn't think you were interested anymore.

we did ?

[HITMAN]

Here's what you need to do to get your timing situation sorted out.

You need to find your true TDC. Here's a good method. Then you need to put some timing tape on your dampener (unless it's already been degreed, of course... ) with the TDC mark at your actual TDC. After this is done, put springs in your distributer that will give you full mechanical advance by 3500 rpms. Now get your timing light out and either you with a tach you can read from the engine compartment or a buddy in the drivers seat bring the engine revs to about 4500 (just to make sure that your advance is all in) and check your total timing. With the engine you have (SBC) and without knowing what your compression and cam timing are, a good ballpark figure for your total timing would probably be somewhere in the 36° to 40° range. Start off with setting your total timing at 38° and if it pings audibly then you can back it until it quits. If not, then leave it until you can either:
A) make some passes at the strip B) use a chassis dyno, or C) some sort of performance meter (G-Tech, MSD Dashhawk, etc.) to ascertain through some trial and error what your best timing actually is. My guess is it wont be any less than 32° total timing, no matter what (unless you are using some sort of power adder). If it pings on more than that than you should be using something like Torco fuel accelerator or mixing in a little race gas to boost your octane.

Next up...that Edelbrock carb you're using, it's basically a Carter carb with a polish job. Eh, whatever. I never saw anything that wouldn't run harder on a Holley than anything else. JMO.

As for your idea that that 700 would have washed the cylinders, not really. All the rating of the carb is, is how many CFM of air it could theoretically pass at 1.5"HG pressure drop. It has nothing to do with how much fuel is passed. That is of a function of jetting/signal strength, not air flow potential. In this case though, if you go by this How-To you're actually right on for sizing.

BTW, I think you're too lean on the carb settings. Check your plugs. If they're white, you're way lean. If they're black and sooty looking, you're fat. Both conditions could cause some of your issues, but my guess would be lean. Bogging on tip in is usually from not having enough accerator pump shot and surging and bucking at a cruise would suggest a lean conditon, as well. Like I said, check your plugs.

I hope some of this info helps you out with your situation.

[Waver]

somthing tells me that this is a fuel problem....just my two cents

[GRM-REPR]

Here's what you need to do to get your timing situation sorted out.

You need to find your true TDC. Here's a good method. Then you need to put some timing tape on your dampener (unless it's already been degreed, of course... ) with the TDC mark at your actual TDC. After this is done, put springs in your distributer that will give you full mechanical advance by 3500 rpms. Now get your timing light out and either you with a tach you can read from the engine compartment or a buddy in the drivers seat bring the engine revs to about 4500 (just to make sure that your advance is all in) and check your total timing. With the engine you have (SBC) and without knowing what your compression and cam timing are, a good ballpark figure for your total timing would probably be somewhere in the 36° to 40° range. Start off with setting your total timing at 38° and if it pings audibly then you can back it until it quits. If not, then leave it until you can either:
A) make some passes at the strip B) use a chassis dyno, or C) some sort of performance meter (G-Tech, MSD Dashhawk, etc.) to ascertain through some trial and error what your best timing actually is. My guess is it wont be any less than 32° total timing, no matter what (unless you are using some sort of power adder). If it pings on more than that than you should be using something like Torco fuel accelerator or mixing in a little race gas to boost your octane.

Next up...that Edelbrock carb you're using, it's basically a Carter carb with a polish job. Eh, whatever. I never saw anything that wouldn't run harder on a Holley than anything else. JMO.

As for your idea that that 700 would have washed the cylinders, not really. All the rating of the carb is, is how many CFM of air it could theoretically pass at 1.5"HG pressure drop. It has nothing to do with how much fuel is passed. That is of a function of jetting/signal strength, not air flow potential. In this case though, if you go by this How-To you're actually right on for sizing.

BTW, I think you're too lean on the carb settings. Check your plugs. If they're white, you're way lean. If they're black and sooty looking, you're fat. Both conditions could cause some of your issues, but my guess would be lean. Bogging on tip in is usually from not having enough accerator pump shot and surging and bucking at a cruise would suggest a lean conditon, as well. Like I said, check your plugs.

I hope some of this info helps you out with your situation.

Thats some pretty good info. I ended up putting a blue spring and silver spring into the dizzy to get 21* of initial timing, and put it to roughly 13* at the balancer to achieve about 34* total timing. My friend went through my Holley I originally had on the car before putting the E-Brock (turns out it was a 750cfm), so I was able to get that back on the engine Thursday (turns out the Holley did have a blown power valve, and it is a 650 double pumper). I followed his directions as to "tuning" the carb. I drove it, it still has like (hard to describe), a flat spot when sitting at a light, and then accelerating. I roughly have the screws almost a half turn out from the engine running rough. I was told to turn each one back out about another half turn.

I took it to Automotion, Friday, and everything was fine, until I got off the freeway. It ran like shit and I knew I was out a cylinder, at a light, when I started to accelerate, it had a small backfire out the pipe. (Don't know if you have been following the thread, but I've been burning the #6 spark plug boot, it's way to close to the header tube), so I checked it at the hotel and it burned again. I didn't trust it before I left so I brought a couple boots just in case. I almost feel like the boot is "rattling/vibrating" off the spark plug. After putting the new one on, it was fine all day. When we left this morning, it was running goofy. I checked the boot again, and it was just hanging on the plug again. I reconnected it and for once, I heard the snap when it has been connected. The whole way home on the freeway it was making a (again, hard to describe), a sort of bubbly noise out the pipes, (not a backfire or pop). I can't explain it, I checked the boot and it was fine. It almost seemed like a surge while driving? Not so much a bucking feeling, but definitely not right.

Sorry for the long story, but I'm wondering if I fouled the #6 plug (the engine seemed fine on the freeway on Friday at about 3,300rpms the whole way), I doubt the boot decided to fall off just as I got off the freeway.

I will try your ideas for shooting the timing, and I think I will richen the mixture screws just a bit.

Thanks for your reply, and thanks Chris (Prince Valiant) for your info, it was very helpful, and spot on right.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

distributer

[HITMAN]

I'm not quite sure what you are laughing at. There are two ways to spell the word, I just chose the more obscure of the two. My spelling of it not only passes spell check but it is listed in numerous dictionaries.

The thing I was driving at when I highlighted the word was to try and get away from the term "dizzy". It's a term ricers use, like Naaaaaaawwwsssss, and it's a pet peeve of mine. But that's OK if you choose to laugh. I know what I know and it's obvious that I know a bit more than you...

distributer

noun
1. someone who markets merchandise [syn: distributor]
2. electrical device that distributes voltage to the spark plugs of a gasoline engine in the order of the firing sequence [syn: distributor]

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

[HITMAN]

Thats some pretty good info. I ended up putting a blue spring and silver spring into the dizzy to get 21* of initial timing, and put it to roughly 13* at the balancer to achieve about 34* total timing. My friend went through my Holley I originally had on the car before putting the E-Brock (turns out it was a 750cfm), so I was able to get that back on the engine Thursday (turns out the Holley did have a blown power valve, and it is a 650 double pumper). I followed his directions as to "tuning" the carb. I drove it, it still has like (hard to describe), a flat spot when sitting at a light, and then accelerating. I roughly have the screws almost a half turn out from the engine running rough. I was told to turn each one back out about another half turn.

I took it to Automotion, Friday, and everything was fine, until I got off the freeway. It ran like shit and I knew I was out a cylinder, at a light, when I started to accelerate, it had a small backfire out the pipe. (Don't know if you have been following the thread, but I've been burning the #6 spark plug boot, it's way to close to the header tube), so I checked it at the hotel and it burned again. I didn't trust it before I left so I brought a couple boots just in case. I almost feel like the boot is "rattling/vibrating" off the spark plug. After putting the new one on, it was fine all day. When we left this morning, it was running goofy. I checked the boot again, and it was just hanging on the plug again. I reconnected it and for once, I heard the snap when it has been connected. The whole way home on the freeway it was making a (again, hard to describe), a sort of bubbly noise out the pipes, (not a backfire or pop). I can't explain it, I checked the boot and it was fine. It almost seemed like a surge while driving? Not so much a bucking feeling, but definitely not right.

Sorry for the long story, but I'm wondering if I fouled the #6 plug (the engine seemed fine on the freeway on Friday at about 3,300rpms the whole way), I doubt the boot decided to fall off just as I got off the freeway.

I will try your ideas for shooting the timing, and I think I will richen the mixture screws just a bit.

Thanks for your reply, and thanks Chris (Prince Valiant) for your info, it was very helpful, and spot on right.

So what carb is on the car right now? Maybe I can help you out, but I'm primarily familiar with Holley's, so I'll need to know. Also, if it is a Holley, does it have mechanical secondaries (double-pumper) or does it have vacuum secondaries? Does it have four corner idle mixture screws or just the two on the primary metering block? How much camshaft are you running? Does this car have a manual transmission or does it have an automatic? If it has an automatic, what is the converter stall speed? How much rear gear does the car have?

As for your burning spark plug wire boots: Get a large diameter socket that you care too much about. (A 1" Chinese impact socket will do nicely.) Go pull the plug you suspect might be fouled. Now put the socket in the approximate location of the burning boots, and smack it on the side with a BFH. You will be dimpling the header tube, but it will be a fairly gentle radius and shouldn't effect performance. Keep at it until you have a noticeable dimple, but don't get crazy and smash the pipe half-way shut. You'll want it dimpled maybe .125", just enough to get you some much needed clearance, but not enough to effect exhaust flow. I had to use this technique on my 511. There wasn't a lot of clearance with full sized plugs and 2.25" primary pipes...

[GRM-REPR]

So what carb is on the car right now? Maybe I can help you out, but I'm primarily familiar with Holley's, so I'll need to know. Also, if it is a Holley, does it have mechanical secondaries (double-pumper) or does it have vacuum secondaries? Does it have four corner idle mixture screws or just the two on the primary metering block? How much camshaft are you running? Does this car have a manual transmission or does it have an automatic? If it has an automatic, what is the converter stall speed? How much rear gear does the car have?

As for your burning spark plug wire boots: Get a large diameter socket that you care too much about. (A 1" Chinese impact socket will do nicely.) Go pull the plug you suspect might be fouled. Now put the socket in the approximate location of the burning boots, and smack it on the side with a BFH. You will be dimpling the header tube, but it will be a fairly gentle radius and shouldn't effect performance. Keep at it until you have a noticeable dimple, but don't get crazy and smash the pipe half-way shut. You'll want it dimpled maybe .125", just enough to get you some much needed clearance, but not enough to effect exhaust flow. I had to use this technique on my 511. There wasn't a lot of clearance with full sized plugs and 2.25" primary pipes...

It's a Holley double pumper (650), mechanical secondaries, auto trans, 2 corner adjustment on primaries, sadly no cam info, supposedly engine rebuilders put in a 2,300 rpm stall converter into it when the engine was rebuilt. MSD mechanical distributor (didn't know dizzy was a ricer term, i've been using it for years from corral.net when i had a mustang).

I wouldn't be able to notch the tube that way, there would be no way it would benefit the closeness. The problem with the boot is that the header tube is directly in front of the plug. With the header wrap I put on it, I can barely put a credit card inbetween the tube and the boot. It is hard as hell to even put the boot on. I have to trim a bit of the female boot end off, just to get the boot onto it.

I am just going to get new headers, I'm sick of dealing with it. Hooker Competition, that explains it all. Chris (Prince Valiant) may be stopping out today for assistance. Can't believe I went to the Dells with it running goofy like this.