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Thread: EVO build....

  1. #1
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    EVO build....

    what would you perfer and why???

    2.0L, 2.1L de-stroker, or 2.3L stroker

    i am trying to find out more info about the 2.1 de-stroker... I havent seen to many people do that... the 2.3 is very popular and looks good for street use... and the plain old 2.0 seems to be around but not as much as the 2.3 stroker. Let me know what yea think!

    i know it really depends on what you want to do with it but yea...
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
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  2. #2
    Race Transmission Rebuilder twicks69's Avatar
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    well, considering that you still have the stock turbo in it, why don't you upgrade that before spending $8-10K on a race motor.

    With that said... I like the 2.3L the best for street driving, and quarter mile with a turbo up to around a GT42R. You can build it properly to rev easily over 10K Rpms with groden rods, and a good valvetrain (FP3X cams, dual springs, 1 or 2mm oversize valves in a good race ported head). Couple that with a good drivetrain/clutch assembly and it is easily possible to do 700 to 900whp depending on the trim of the 42R. If you are going to street drive this car whatsoever...I would just go with a crower/ross setup 2.3L with a GT35R and call it a day with a nice 600AWHP daily driver with full boost around 3500rpms, pulling all day to 9000+rpms with a good setup.

    If you want to rev the bejesus out of your motor, then go with a 2.1L destroker (I haven't heard of anyone doing this in an EVO though...just using a 2.0L long rod version instead) if you want to go up to around 10.5K RPMS. It will sound like a honda..., and make just a little more torque than the 2.0L, utilizing the 2.0L block with a 2.0L crank, longer rods, and changing the piston pin depth, along with a 2.0L Mivec head (that would be the ideal route). If you are going to stay in a 4000 to 8000rpm powerband though, you are wasting your time with the 2.1L destroker. Solid design with a good rod/stroke ratio, but it is only really good for revving the piss out of your motor to spool your turbo with a high rpm powerband. If this car is going to be a daily driver/part time 1/4mile and road course car, I would say this motor would not be the ideal one to choose. I feel this way mainly because you will need to keep high in the rpms at the road course, which can potentially put alot of wear on the setup over time. At the 1/4 mile, you will need to launch at a really high rpm to get the turbo spooled enough to pull a good 60' time. Once you are moving, fine...it will be just peachy with a turbo like a T74 and larger. Again, these motors are usually used by racers that want to run more than 700awhp.

    The good ole' 2.0 is really not a bad motor. You can always do road racing, autocross, 1/4mile, and street driving with a 2.0L on a crower or eagle rod combo'd with Ross Pistons. You can daily drive it all day long and not have to worry about the longevity of your motor (like with daily driving aluminum Groden Rods). If you want to go a lighter rotational mass route, you could always do Eagle rods with Mahle pistons, along with a knive-edged crank and a lightweight clutch assembly and drivetrain to zing that motor like a crotch rocket.

    To each their own. I liked my 2.0L when it still lived, and it was reliable. I like my 2.3L alot, since it is still reliable, and has alot of torque, while spooling my turbo no problem. It is an easy way to make 500-650awhp with a properly sized turbo without sacrificing the daily driver low end torque from 2500-3500rpms. Once you hit 3600-3800rpms though, it is hauling ass until 8500rpms.

    I also researched alot into the 2.1L setup for DSM's, but decided with a 2.3L using a Darren "butchered" crank, eagle/ross setup from FFWD Connection, along with the advice from Luke from Beyond Redline, and Jake from Top Street Performance. I felt that the 2.1 would be useless to me on the street, and the 2.3L has been doing 9's all day long in numerous evos and DSM's.
    Last edited by twicks69; 05-16-2006 at 08:25 PM.
    Tim Zimmer
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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    2005 Subaru Outback Limited
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  3. #3
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    ^^^ wow... did that take you all night to write!!! ahaha jk... yea i was leaning towards a 2.3 that revs 9k max. I am just curious about the 2.1 because i saw it used a couple times and them things screamed! I agree with you totally on everything you said... and i not not looking to do any of this soon... maybe late next year or so. I want to see how far i can take this stock block first. Late this summer i would like to get a GT35r, 272cams, and some sort of EMS... possibly AEM. when i get home in a month the first thing its getting is a better clutch... i dont know how much longer this one is going to hold up! Thank you for your input!
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
    '05 ion < DD
    '63 chevy ll < new project
    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

  4. #4
    Senior Member..now yer posting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by twicks69
    If you want to rev the bejesus out of your motor, then go with a 2.1L destroker (I haven't heard of anyone doing this in an EVO though...just using a 2.0L long rod version instead) if you want to go up to around 10.5K RPMS. It will sound like a honda..., and make just a little more torque than the 2.0L, utilizing the 2.0L block with a 2.0L crank, longer rods, and changing the piston pin depth, along with a 2.0L Mivec head (that would be the ideal route).

    I also researched alot into the 2.1L setup for DSM's, but decided with a 2.3L using a Darren "butchered" crank, eagle/ross setup from FFWD Connection, along with the advice from Luke from Beyond Redline, and Jake from Top Street Performance. I felt that the 2.1 would be useless to me on the street, and the 2.3L has been doing 9's all day long in numerous evos and DSM's.
    You really haven't done much research if you came up with this garbage. A 2.1 uses a 2.0 block??? Sorry try again. The 4g63 and 4g64 are nearly identical execept for the 6mm taller deck hight of the 64. Please seriously do some leg work before you ty and mis-inform people. The 2.1 is based off of a 2.4, I am building one right now, actually my 2nd 2.1 being built. 10.5 redline, once again try again. These engines will spin consistantly to 12.5 with room for more.

    twicks, I would like to know where you got your info from. Obviously no one who has ever built one. Plus eagles are junk rods if you are going for over 500whp in an evo. Im not the biggest fan of crower either. Might want to look into Oliver rods, well worth the money spent. Go ahead and use a re-welded crank.

    I may not be the fastest out there but I know the limitsof engines and have built many over the years, but some of the stuff that you posted just makes me laugh.
    03 Evo. 6262/2.0
    518hp/ 24psi/ 94%IDC

  5. #5
    Race Transmission Rebuilder twicks69's Avatar
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    Evolved - thank you for the compliments. I see that I have made a friend for life!

    I know through experience with DSM's that a 2.1 destroker is from a 4G64 2.4L block with a 4G63 2.0 crank. Sorry that I had the post correct beforehand, then edited it for the above stated comments after information from Magnus on their 2.1L long rod motor.

    Evolved, you must be GOD, I will bow down to you....

    Whatever. I forgot that your car is SPECIAL, and needs to be put together yet. When you get it out of your garage, then you can insult people.
    Last edited by twicks69; 05-19-2006 at 05:28 PM.
    Tim Zimmer
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.49@148mph, street trim.
    ----------------------------
    2005 Subaru Outback Limited
    -- Winter Beater --

  6. #6
    SNATCH A KISS ORVICEVERSA Junky Giorgio's Avatar
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    what magazine did you get all this info out of zim timmer??? this coming from someone who called me and asked how to pull a motor out of a 1g dsm
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  7. #7
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    ^^^ ahahaha...

    yea i am prolly just going to build a 2.3L... but hey by the time i do that i may have changed my mind 4 or 5 times! thanks for the info from both of you guys.
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
    '05 ion < DD
    '63 chevy ll < new project
    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

  8. #8
    Race Transmission Rebuilder twicks69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvolvedRegal
    The 2.1 is based off of a 2.4, I am building one right now, actually my 2nd 2.1 being built. 10.5 redline, once again try again. These engines will spin consistantly to 12.5 with room for more.

    twicks, I would like to know where you got your info from. Obviously no one who has ever built one. Plus eagles are junk rods if you are going for over 500whp in an evo. Im not the biggest fan of crower either. Might want to look into Oliver rods, well worth the money spent. Go ahead and use a re-welded crank.

    I may not be the fastest out there but I know the limitsof engines and have built many over the years, but some of the stuff that you posted just makes me laugh.


    Evolved -

    Which block are you using to make a 2.1L in your evo? I was not aware of a 2.4L block out there for your application with the reversed-transverse transmission layout of that vehicle.

    Also, what is your pin height and rod length of the hardware that you are using? What is your rod-stroke ratio?

    As to the best of my knowledge from researching your statement of you making a 2.1L destroked EVO motor, I have only found experimental R&D information from speaking with AMS, JAM and Buschur. I did not know of any 2.1L EVO VIII 4G63's in the country using a 4G64cs 2.4L block with a 2.0 crank, rods and stroker pistons. I am interested to learn more on who is doing the work, along with what specific parts you are using in your build-up.

    I only have seen long-rod EVO 4G63 2.0L versions using a different piston pin depth to get a better rod-stroke ratio but it still maintains a 1997cc displacement in stock bore; then all of the 2.3L stroker setups that are out there.

    I am interested in learning more. I have not said anything about knowing all, nor have I insulted your own knowledge on this topic.

    Also, as for the Eagle Rods vs. Crower Rods, vs. Oliver, etc.... SloLS1 has not told us what his horsepower goals are for the car, so instead of saying that a part is junk, maybe it just isn't up to YOUR application. I would reccomend a better rod than an Eagle too if the car is designed to go more than 550-600whp. The Oliver rods are a good choice for your application, and have a similar weight when compared to the Eagles and can handle more power, for a higher price. Just because your motor is done on a no limit budget, doesn't mean that everyone out there can do so.


    Junk - I asked you questions on how to do a 1G engine removal because that was the first 1G pull I had ever done. I had done several 2G pulls prior to that, along with several engine pulls/installs since that time in 1G's and 2G's. Asking questions is something that smart people do when they don't know the answer to a problem. If you didn't ask them, you would just screw it up and look like an ass.

    As for a recap, the question asked by SloLS1 was "what would you perfer and why???". If you want, why don't you give him information so that he has another person to come forward and share their experiences with these motors, along with the characteristics of the motor, its longevity, its built-purpose use, and what parts you are using.
    Last edited by twicks69; 05-19-2006 at 05:25 PM.
    Tim Zimmer
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.49@148mph, street trim.
    ----------------------------
    2005 Subaru Outback Limited
    -- Winter Beater --

  9. #9
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    well my basic goals are a solid 10sec, street driven, all around fun car to drive with A/C!!! It has been done and thats what i am looking to do next summer winter!
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
    '05 ion < DD
    '63 chevy ll < new project
    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

  10. #10
    Senior Member..now yer posting!
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    My block is out of a 2001 eclipse. All of the mounts are the same so I have no worrys that it will bolt right in. I beleive that they can be taken out of galants also but dont quote me on that.

    As far as the pin height, im not really sure. Slowboy racing has the kit built and it to their specs. I can always measure for you if need be.

    As far as the rod selection I have found out to just spend money on the better parts so they don't become an issue down the road where the motor will need to be rebuilt in the near future. Yes I am on a budget and the 2.1 is now on hold since my tranny and t-case took a dump at the track last night.

    So now I am forced to put money in other places that I thought wouldn't need it till later this year or next, but at least my drivetrain will be solid. If your wondering what is being done I am going with a shep racing tranny w/cryo treatment on the gears and sliders. Stage 2 t-case w/ Quaife LSD, and to top it all of a tilton hybrid clutch. This tranny problem is a huge set-back but will be worth it in the end (I hope), just kinda dragging ass because of this and it hasn't been 24 hours yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by twicks69
    Evolved -

    Which block are you using to make a 2.1L in your evo? I was not aware of a 2.4L block out there for your application with the reversed-transverse transmission layout of that vehicle.

    Also, what is your pin height and rod length of the hardware that you are using? What is your rod-stroke ratio?

    As to the best of my knowledge from researching your statement of you making a 2.1L destroked EVO motor, I have only found experimental R&D information from speaking with AMS, JAM and Buschur. I did not know of any 2.1L EVO VIII 4G63's in the country using a 4G64cs 2.4L block with a 2.0 crank, rods and stroker pistons. I am interested to learn more on who is doing the work, along with what specific parts you are using in your build-up.

    I only have seen long-rod EVO 4G63 2.0L versions using a different piston pin depth to get a better rod-stroke ratio but it still maintains a 1997cc displacement in stock bore; then all of the 2.3L stroker setups that are out there.

    I am interested in learning more. I have not said anything about knowing all, nor have I insulted your own knowledge on this topic.

    Also, as for the Eagle Rods vs. Crower Rods, vs. Oliver, etc.... SloLS1 has not told us what his horsepower goals are for the car, so instead of saying that a part is junk, maybe it just isn't up to YOUR application. I would reccomend a better rod than an Eagle too if the car is designed to go more than 550-600whp. The Oliver rods are a good choice for your application, and have a similar weight when compared to the Eagles and can handle more power, for a higher price. Just because your motor is done on a no limit budget, doesn't mean that everyone out there can do so.


    Junk - I asked you questions on how to do a 1G engine removal because that was the first 1G pull I had ever done. I had done several 2G pulls prior to that, along with several engine pulls/installs since that time in 1G's and 2G's. Asking questions is something that smart people do when they don't know the answer to a problem. If you didn't ask them, you would just screw it up and look like an ass.

    As for a recap, the question asked by SloLS1 was "what would you perfer and why???". If you want, why don't you give him information so that he has another person to come forward and share their experiences with these motors, along with the characteristics of the motor, its longevity, its built-purpose use, and what parts you are using.
    03 Evo. 6262/2.0
    518hp/ 24psi/ 94%IDC

  11. #11
    SlowAccord
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    So glad the pissing contest is over

  12. #12
    BCM Cruiser LITE SPD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloLs1
    ^^^ wow... did that take you all night to write!!! ahaha jk... yea i was leaning towards a 2.3 that revs 9k max. I am just curious about the 2.1 because i saw it used a couple times and them things screamed! I agree with you totally on everything you said... and i not not looking to do any of this soon... maybe late next year or so. I want to see how far i can take this stock block first. Late this summer i would like to get a GT35r, 272cams, and some sort of EMS... possibly AEM. when i get home in a month the first thing its getting is a better clutch... i dont know how much longer this one is going to hold up! Thank you for your input!
    You mean 280 cams. I would go with a 2.3L myself. And for godsakes boy, just take the thing to AMS and let them have there way with it.

  13. #13
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LITE SPD
    You mean 280 cams. I would go with a 2.3L myself. And for godsakes boy, just take the thing to AMS and let them have there way with it.
    i will most likely end up doing that and the only reason is because there isnt an AWD dyno around here... also they have been doing it for a while, established a good rep. and are one of the best! BUT i really hate pissing 600-700 in a tune!(i think thats what they charge) we'll see what happens......

    and no, i dont mean 280 cams.... JUN 272's! they actually make more power than any other 280 cam! just to let you know.... Buscher racing went to those and i think AMS did too(correct me if i am wrong) i am going for a smooth power band... not a highest horsepower, laggy, poopy, non-streetable car!
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
    '05 ion < DD
    '63 chevy ll < new project
    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

  14. #14
    BCM Cruiser LITE SPD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloLs1
    i will most likely end up doing that and the only reason is because there isnt an AWD dyno around here... also they have been doing it for a while, established a good rep. and are one of the best! BUT i really hate pissing 600-700 in a tune!(i think thats what they charge) we'll see what happens......

    and no, i dont mean 280 cams.... JUN 272's! they actually make more power than any other 280 cam! just to let you know.... Buscher racing went to those and i think AMS did too(correct me if i am wrong) i am going for a smooth power band... not a highest horsepower, laggy, poopy, non-streetable car!
    Ahh you did not specify about the JUN cams! I would not worry about AMS and spending your $$$ with them. When Bezo and I went to tune his IX there, we felt like we were wasting there time with a cheap $600 dyno tune. We heard them on the phone with people spending $10,000 to $15,000 with them. And it almost sounded like a drop in the bucket for them. Then we realized that we were a small dot in the big picture for them, but they did still treat us like gentlemen and they were very professional and answered all of our questions. And they don't care where you got your parts from (they will not push there parts on you either). They just want to make sure that they don't negativly affect your tune in anyway (boost leaks ect..). And Martin (owner of AMS) also asked us if we wanted the car tuned on the brink of destruction or if we wanted streetablity and be safe. We liked that about him! You will be fine with your quest to 10s, there is already a recipe on how to do that with the EVO. You just need some $$$!
    Last edited by LITE SPD; 06-13-2006 at 09:53 PM.

  15. #15
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LITE SPD
    Ahh you did not specify about the JUN cams! I would not worry about AMS and spending your $$$ with them. When Bezo and I went to tune his IX there, we felt like we were wasting there time with a cheap $600 dyno tune. We heard them on the phone with people spending $10,000 to $15,000 with them. And it almost sounded like a drop in the bucket for them. Then we realized that we were a small dot in the big picture for them, but they did still treat us like gentlemen and they were very professional and answered all of our questions. And they don't care where you got your parts from (they will not push there parts on you either). They just want to make sure that they don't negativly affect your tune in anyway (boost leaks ect..). And Martin (owner of AMS) also asked us if we wanted the car tuned on the brink of destruction or if we wanted streetablity and be safe. We liked that about him! You will be fine with your quest to 10s, there is already a recipe on how to do that with the EVO. You just need some $$$!

    agreed!

    money... thats where my 50+ hour weeks, 7days a week come into play!!!
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
    '05 ion < DD
    '63 chevy ll < new project
    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

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