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  1. #41
    Speaks the Truth theavenger333's Avatar
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    basically like you guys have all said, most times stuff is overkill. i remember when i was gonna get a DSM (god saved me on that one j/k) i heard nothing but 14b is dogchit etc. 16g was the way to go. everyone dawged it. yet the 14b is a small unit, but its there, and the motor is small. josh and i have discussed this, we agree, its more fun most of the time to learn how to properly do something, rather than swipe the credit card and put on something bigger. i'd rather hit the best power possible with a capable unit. the 4.3 is about as close to a V8 as u can get without 8 cylinders, requires a larger turbo. i've heard of WAY too many hondas throwin the same turbo josh has on H series motors, and even down to a D15. its just dumb. and costly no less
    "A turbo, exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, with a supercharger, air goes in, witchcraft happens and you go faster."
    - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #42
    ProjectCamaro.com ProjectCamaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireguyrick
    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectCamaro
    You wish, there's nothing like the torque of a 5.7 liter V8.

    So the 416awtq that my car puts down must be nothing huh? Oh yeah, that is on an engine with less then 1/2 the displacment, and half the cylinders then this almighty V8. Power is a money game though, so it is pointless to argue that. Maybe this spring Project Camaro can meet Project STi. I will have a little more displacment lined up, so I won't need as much of a head start.

    Rick
    I agree it's whoever spends more money. You can make your car faster than mine and I can make mine faster than yours. It's all a matter of what you personally prefer and I prefer V8's because they are easier to make big hp numbers in my opinon without causes engine problems. My brother on the other hand is huge into imports. He has a '98 GSX and an '02 or '03(don't remember) S2000. I have nothing but respect for a fast car no matter what it is.
    RedLS1.com
    Because You Can Never Modify To Many Camaro's

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee
    well forget the other 4 cyl motors. honduhs have this VTEC thingy that can really spool a big big turbo at high rpms. honduhs don't have much power down low anyhow so that is why we like to use big big turbos because the honduh Vtec make big big power on the very high high end. so we make big big power. mr. cyclone you don't need to be asking those questions.. you need to ask why honduhs and other fwd put out so much power on big turbos..no traction = bullsh1t.. and for the awd people you need to ask them that even if they have awd their 4cyl wont last for sh1t... truth is don't all the 4cyl just often blow to cr@p under big boost on big big turbosss........

    how was my ebonics...hehe!!!
    Were you trying to actually say something, or just make noise in my thread? I can't even read that crap. If you have something intelligent to say, I ask that you use the SHIFT key at least once per sentence. I show you respect with the time I spend editing/proofreading my posts and capitalizing/punctuating them, I only ask that you do the same for me. I would have thought with your shop's experience you'd have something useful to contribute to this thread, why did you post this instead?
    Last edited by Syclone0044; 11-30-2005 at 10:45 AM.
    Josh
    91 GMC Syclone, full street trim, full accessories, stock bottom end.
    11.45 @ 117.7 57mm PT51 turbo at 20 PSI, 93 octane street tune w/alcohol injection. D.I.Y. Budget build, <$4500 under the hood complete.


  4. #44
    Formerly known as Yellow Wagon jbiscuit's Avatar
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    above post =

    [grabs riot gear] uh oh [/grabs riot gear]
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    2012 Subaru WRX STi 5-door
    1964 Biscayne 2dr - 4-speed

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Jerome
    "Your" setup may have exeption's but today's case in point:

    My present daily driver (90 turbovan) is a bone stock
    2.5 Turbo weighing in at over 3000# with a little tiny stock Mitz
    turbo of the TEO4H family. At 15psi the stock 2.5 feels "peppy",
    swap it out with a t-3/4 with a 60 trim and a .63/stage3 and the
    van will simply roll tires all day on onramp at EXACT SAME 15PSI!
    Hey Russ. I think our opinions on the topic are actually the same. I wrote:

    "In my opinion, you'll only get REAL gains (the kind worth paying money for) if your existing turbo is an extreme bottleneck (for instance a stock turbo on a vehicle with upgraded heads/cam, or poorly sized stock turbo from the factory)"

    ... It sounds like your example falls under the latter category, is that possible? I know my 90 Turbo Grand Prix is the exact same way, the tiny stock T25 turbo (one of the smallest I've seen) is absolutely taxed at 12 PSI on this 3.1L engine. I am sure if I ever upgraded the turbo it would probably be a screamer at even 2 PSI less boost!

    PS: Your Turbovan sounds pretty cool!
    Josh
    91 GMC Syclone, full street trim, full accessories, stock bottom end.
    11.45 @ 117.7 57mm PT51 turbo at 20 PSI, 93 octane street tune w/alcohol injection. D.I.Y. Budget build, <$4500 under the hood complete.


  6. #46
    number1
    Guest
    The statement about volume of air is correct, more air at the same pressure = horsepower. The biggest problem is spool time because of compressor sizing. With a newer designs of the turbo charger can facilitate spool and greatly reduce lag, for example ball bearing turbos and garrett VNT turbo chargers. The turbo themselves can be larger for more air flow, but still produce the same personalities of a smaller, less developed turbo.

  7. #47
    What about this compressor map?
    Last edited by FourEyedFord; 11-30-2005 at 04:48 PM.

  8. #48
    Sorry, I really don't know what any of that means. I just wanted to post a compressor map. How would you read this Josh?

  9. #49
    Senior Member..now yer posting!
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    Looks more like a supercharger pic, that thing can flow a hell of a lot of air. 70/lbs per min and it's right at it's peak eff.
    03 Evo. 6262/2.0
    518hp/ 24psi/ 94%IDC

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by EvolvedRegal
    Looks more like a supercharger pic, that thing can flow a hell of a lot of air. 70/lbs per min and it's right at it's peak eff.

    Yes, it is for a vortech ys-trim supercharger. How do you read the map, and what rpm is that 70lbs at? A lot of people push these blowers into the 70,000 rpm range, what does that mean in flow? Looks like the map doesn't show that high.
    Last edited by FourEyedFord; 11-30-2005 at 06:07 PM.

  11. #51
    Ol' School Russ Jerome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syclone0044
    Hey Russ. I think our opinions on the topic are actually the same. I wrote:

    "In my opinion, you'll only get REAL gains (the kind worth paying money for) if your existing turbo is an extreme bottleneck (for instance a stock turbo on a vehicle with upgraded heads/cam, or poorly sized stock turbo from the factory)"
    Yup agreed with your post 100%.

    Another issue people dont realize when sizing a turbo is the
    AR of the turbine itself, most overturbo'ed cars run a tight
    AR on hot side to spool the pig. Again the oversized turbine
    (not allowing hot expanding gass's to exit freely) actualy
    negate the larger comp wheels ability to flow and still heat
    the air. Its a careful balancing act and a huge intercooler
    will only act as a bandaid to cool overheated air and cause
    more restriction than when they started...make sense?

    I cheat, I research guys with my setup making over 450hp
    and find out who is happy with there street spool with the
    same turbo that they dynoed with Unfortunatly my present
    Starlet projects "new" turbo was purchased 4 years ago...lots
    change over time and it's dated today!
    http://sites.google.com/site/russjerome/
    Watching the country collapse in front of me while nobody else notices...

  12. #52
    Ol' School Russ Jerome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 427 S/C
    How would you read this Josh?
    Here is a basic read:
    http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
    http://sites.google.com/site/russjerome/
    Watching the country collapse in front of me while nobody else notices...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Jerome
    Hey Russ! I have seen you down at the track before. If I am not mistaken... You were boosting your old minivan (WITH A TRAILER WITH YOUR OMNI ON IT) next to me on the freeway. Freakin awesome!
    Anyways, I love that site. Most people will not take the time or have the desire to gain the knowledge which is on there.

    Anyhow, I think a turbo is "one of" the last things that should be desided on when setting up a "good setup" is the turbo. More I believe the very first thing should be "What Is Your Goal?" Power, Times, Increasing VE to achieve better gas mileage... Big or small shoot from there.

    A couple by the ways...
    -The 420hp figure on those GT28RS turbos is not uncommon. I got the chance to drive Jeff Simon's (Simons CPR) turbo 1000cc snowmobile. That this was something to the affect of 410-415hp on that turbo.
    -And, Thank you for putting a tech related thread in this section.
    -Numbers will get you 90% of the way. The rest is just doing it.

    You still have a seat reserved as "OFFICIAL LAPTOP HOLDER"

    Jake
    Top Street
    JHRacing.net

    Those Who Say It Can't Be Done.... Shouldn't Fu(k With The Guy Who's Doing It!

  14. #54
    I think that alot of the turbo setups on imports are overkill for guys running stock motors and 8-10psi with a T3/T4, sure they'd be way better off with a 16G for streetability. I think the reason a lot of the import owners that know what they are doing and actually making good power decide to go with big turbos is because of their power potential. Another factor is them not knowing for sure what they want out of the car and wanting a turbo that will also support future power urges.. It would suck to spend big bucks on a turbo that is super effecient for your current setup but then 6 months down the road you decide you want more power and now you have to purchase another turbo because the one you just bought can not push enough air. Another thing to consider is a lot of the smaller import engines are reved to 8,500+ RPM's and even if you don't reach full boost until 5,000 RPM you still have 3,500+ RPM's of powerband at full boost. Now on your V8 that redlines at 5,500 RPM's you have to have full boost by 2,000 RPM's to have the same amount of powerband under full boost. Full boost is only a downshift away and our cars regularly cruise near 4,000 RPM's anyway. With over 500hp I prefer a turbo that is effeicent and not having to "work" so hard. Could I accomplish the same power goals with a slighly smaller turbo and increase spool time by a few hundred RPM's, yes, but I do not like the idea of pushing my turbo to it's limits. I think the turbo will last a lot longer if it doesn't have to "work" so hard. But what do I know.
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (EVIL AWD)

  15. #55
    wide the f*** open sloLs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RATED R
    I think that alot of the turbo setups on imports are overkill for guys running stock motors and 8-10psi with a T3/T4, sure they'd be way better off with a 16G for streetability. I think the reason a lot of the import owners that know what they are doing and actually making good power decide to go with big turbos is because of their power potential. Another factor is them not knowing for sure what they want out of the car and wanting a turbo that will also support future power urges.. It would suck to spend big bucks on a turbo that is super effecient for your current setup but then 6 months down the road you decide you want more power and now you have to purchase another turbo because the one you just bought can not push enough air. Another thing to consider is a lot of the smaller import engines are reved to 8,500+ RPM's and even if you don't reach full boost until 5,000 RPM you still have 3,500+ RPM's of powerband at full boost. Now on your V8 that redlines at 5,500 RPM's you have to have full boost by 2,000 RPM's to have the same amount of powerband under full boost. Full boost is only a downshift away and our cars regularly cruise near 4,000 RPM's anyway. With over 500hp I prefer a turbo that is effeicent and not having to "work" so hard. Could I accomplish the same power goals with a slighly smaller turbo and increase spool time by a few hundred RPM's, yes, but I do not like the idea of pushing my turbo to it's limits. I think the turbo will last a lot longer if it doesn't have to "work" so hard. But what do I know.

    agreed!
    '95 saturn < v8 GONE!
    '09 avalanche < tow rig
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    Some girls do want an 8 second ride

  16. #56
    Ol' School Russ Jerome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopStreetDsm
    Hey Russ! I have seen you down at the track before. If I am not mistaken... You were boosting your old minivan (WITH A TRAILER WITH YOUR OMNI ON IT) next to me on the freeway. Freakin awesome!
    Thanks man, hard to miss a minivan with an RFL/BOV !
    Got a second one, clean gandpa model with running boards
    http://sites.google.com/site/russjerome/
    Watching the country collapse in front of me while nobody else notices...

  17. #57
    Blackhawk01
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    Syclone,

    There's a guy who lives down the road from me. He transplanted 4.2L inline 6 out of a new Trailblazer into his 66 Nova. Put a big GT4788 turbo on it and a rather large front mount cooler. At 23psi he's pushing 1200hp, and the motor is pretty much bulletproof through all of his travels so far... He even drove it on the street for 1400+ miles in the Hot Rod Mag Drag Week this past Labor Day weekend.

    Started in KC, and ended in Martin, MI. They had to drive to like 5 different towns in 5 days and make passes down the strip at each stop. Best average ET won. He ran an 8.62 @170+ on the last day of the event, but had traction issues at a few of the other tracks so he didn't win, but did pretty well.
    Oh yeah, and he made his passes on true DR's, not slicks, or street et's...
    Last edited by Blackhawk01; 12-02-2005 at 07:03 AM.

  18. #58
    Blackhawk01
    Guest
    By the way...

    I'm getting over 550hp at the rear wheel on a 1.3 liter

  19. #59
    Beeyond Engineering
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    main reason why 4cyls use BIG TURBOS for BIG POWER because little turbos can't make BIG POWER in 4cyls... Most 4cyls have gearing options to spool big turbos anyhow and revs are up in the 9-10k rpms. small engines have their own powerband as does the big 8s. in the end usually the big 8s win. durh they have 3-4 times the displacement. 4cyls only often win in the weight catagory!!! other then that 4cyls are a mere dot when compared to the BIG8s.... in any case though i would still rather build 4cyls fwd due to the challenging nature

    some in WI w/ a fwd hit 9s damn it!!!


    WHEN THE AMS1000 gets tuned w/ more track time hopefully someone i know in WI will finally dip into the single digits...
    Last edited by Bee; 12-04-2005 at 02:29 PM.
    Personal Best FWD Street-Trim: 9.66@158+mph

  20. #60
    Blackhawk01
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee

    WHEN THE AMS1000 gets tuned w/ more track time hopefully someone i know in WI will finally dip into the single digits...

    If they need help with the AMS, you might want to have them give me a call.

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