Hot Street Rules 10.20 class. Feed back

*Exterior.. Must remain stock except.. replacements of fiber glass bumpers,hood ok... NO LEXAN WINDOWS.. sponsor stickers are limited to windows only..

*Interior....Must have full Interior stock dash, and carpet, all seats must be covered door panals must be upholserterd finished look... .. ( ok to remove back seat.. Butt must be carpeted) Must have 2 front seats !!! after market ok.

*All Cars must have full funtioning headlights, tail lights, turn signals ,horn!
will be checked at random.

* All vehicals must Registerd and Lic... ** maybe be asked for registraion at time of tech**

*Suspension... Stock style suspension must mount in factory locations.. After market replacement parts OK... NO MINI TUBS. Or Stretching of panals... **cars not originally equipped with torque arm style suspension may not add them..**IRS equipped vehicles may swap to a solid rear axle
* Coil overs -ok
* may move leafsprings in for tire clearance
* Minor frame notching -ok

*Exhuast-- must have mufflers and exit min by rear axle
*MOTOR COMBOS* ***min weights required****
*** may adjust weights to keep piority ..Will have 1 race notice ..

*Small block N/A 3200 lbs
*Small block power adder 3300 lbs ( single power adder)
** V6 single turbo or Nos 3300
** Mod Motors fall into small block catagory***

*Big block N/A 3300 lbs
*Big block power adder 3400 lbs Plate system only
** No Foggers or turbos on Big block combos**

*Turbo rule .. single Max turbo 70mm inlet with max 76 housing on Small block combos only..will be checked with no go gauge!!!
** No boost controlers**

* Nitrous rule .. single plate systems 1 fuel /1 nos solenoid 1 purge valve
EFI.. max of 2 Nos nozzles 1fuel / 1 Nos solenoid 1 purge valve
** No prgressive Nos Controlers**
** purge solenoid must exit engine compartment
* digisets ok 1 per adder...
* NOS Safty Valve

*** all other stages must be capped off NO!! exceptions!!!

*** Superchargers, facrory whipples, . whipple 2.3L max and kenne belle 2.4L
vortec- up to T-trim
procharger- Up to -D1
paxton - up to novi 2000

** Water meth Injection can be used as Innnercooling ONLY!!!!
- may not be used with innercoolers...

*** No break out boxes, NO Throttle stops ( home made and after market) no electrical devices that control any throttle devices.......... If caught using them DQ'ed for entire yr...

*max tire for 15'' rim is 275 drg radial or 28.10.5 or Et Street 28x12.5
16- DOT tire( drag raidals) or et street
17 drag radial/
18 drag radial/


Crew is limited to 1 person up at the starting line.... besides driver

Lettering/Decals/Logos
TSDRA Sponsorship decals must be displayed on vehicle in order to qualify for points and win payouts. One (1) official TSDRA decal required on each side window.

THESE ARE TENITIVE RULES ... NOT SET IN STONE YET..... TSDRA HAS TO VOTE THEM IN.... I THINK THIS WILL BE CLOSE TO WHAT WERE LOOKING AT

GIVE FEED BACK ON WWW.TRUESTREETRACING.COM THANKS SCOTTYK

if someone see's something messed up in combo's that don't match, post up. some of you ford guys know those whipple/KB setups better than others in comparison to a t-trim/D1, especially on the '03-'04 Cobras

When we carpet our butts, do we have a choice as to what kind of carpet or do you mandate shag?

:goof

Any chance in a 10.99-11.2 class?

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Originally Posted by Smokey1226

Any chance in a 10.99-11.2 class?

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prob not

Totally just trying to be helpful here!

I think it may be a little unfair to allow a novi 2000 in a class geared towards 10.20 cars. I know it has a cap, but if the YS/YSi is not allowed then neither should the Novi 2000.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by 427 S/C

Totally just trying to be helpful here!

I think it may be a little unfair to allow a novi 2000 in a class geared towards 10.20 cars. I know it has a cap, but if the YS/YSi is not allowed then neither should the Novi 2000.

Just my 2 cents.

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wasnt sure on specs of Novi 2000 ... thanks bobby

Thanks Bobby. Like I said, I didnt know what blowers get you where.

Bobby - Should we just allow up to the 1500 then? Or stick with the 1000 as tops?

Clarify the "no boost controllers" plz So just run off what ever wastegate spring you have?? I think thats kind of a bogus thing, every setup needs some sort of waste gate controler.

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Originally Posted by BAD LS1

Clarify the "no boost controllers" plz So just run off what ever wastegate spring you have?? I think thats kind of a bogus thing, every setup needs some sort of waste gate controler.

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why is that?

not being a ****,just trying to understand why you ask/say that

I would cap the blowers at 1500 cfm. It is true that a 1500 cfm blower can go way faster then 10.20's, but so can a BB with a plate. (That would be the novi 2000 and the vortech YS trim)

A 1200 cfm blower (vortech T trim, and a novi 1200) could clear the cap in a 3300 lb car, but the car will still be working fairly hard to do so.

IMO the 1000 cfm blowers in a 3300 lb car, will have to be set near kill to make the cap.

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Originally Posted by scottie K

wasnt sure on specs of Novi 2000 ... thanks bobby

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Here are some specs and how I would do it if the T-trim is the max:

Paxton Novi-1500 and Smaller
http://www.paxtonauto.com/superchargers_novi_1500.html

Vortech V1 T-Trim (At the bottom) and Smaller
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...s+Supercharger

Procharger D-Series and Smaller
http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml

They all flow in the same ballpark as far as CFM is concerned, 1200-1400. Technically the P-Series would be a better fit with the Paxton/Vortech just looking at flow ratings, but excluding the D-series would leave a lot out. I really don't think you will have any complaints including the D-series though, it is not a huge advantage. (Frankly I think the Vortech and Paxton units have gone faster anyways at this level)

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Originally Posted by BAD LS1

Clarify the "no boost controllers" plz So just run off what ever wastegate spring you have?? I think thats kind of a bogus thing, every setup needs some sort of waste gate controler.

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Most of the time that means no in car controller, I'm sure a regulator or bleeder valve mounted in the engine compartment would be fine.....

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Originally Posted by BOSS LX

I would cap the blowers at 1500 cfm. It is true that a 1500 cfm blower can go way faster then 10.20's, but so can a BB with a plate. (That would be the novi 2000 and the vortech YS trim)

A 1200 cfm blower (vortech T trim, and a novi 1200) could clear the cap in a 3300 lb car, but the car will still be working fairly hard to do so.

IMO the 1000 cfm blowers in a 3300 lb car, will have to be set near kill to make the cap.

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I do agree here, too. If you let the big blocks in with NOS, then maybe open up the use of the YSi/Novi 2000/F-1.

Maybe if you have a big block, you can only run N/A? Then you could leave it to the smaller blowers.

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Originally Posted by GRNDNL

Most of the time that means no in car controller, I'm sure a regulator or bleeder valve mounted in the engine compartment would be fine.....

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ding ding... thanks keith

Good point on the D blowers Bobby. So I take it that front mount air-to-air innercoolers are legal?

Skottie,

As far as the turbos go, do you mean you can run a max of a 76mm wheel, but you can only have a 70mm inlet?

Bobby, yes... because of the the availability of those turbo's

like all the borg warner 75mm cheap ones that are on turbomustangs.

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Originally Posted by BOSS LX

Good point on the D blowers Bobby. So I take it that front mount air-to-air innercoolers are legal?

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that would be legal

Besides the blower cfm, the rules look good to me.

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Originally Posted by 427 S/C

Skottie,

As far as the turbos go, do you mean you can run a max of a 76mm wheel, but you can only have a 70mm inlet?

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you can run a 76 mm turbo,with a 70mm inlet reducer.

You guys need to settle on a blower cfm. To me a 76mm turbo, with a 76mm inlet is equal to a 1500 cfm blower.

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Originally Posted by juicedimpss

why is that?

not being a ****,just trying to understand why you ask/say that

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Well mine for one, the turbo responsiveness (how fast it spools) and peak boost are all controlled by an external controller. I have a 7 psi spring in the gate and sees about 5 of that with just a boost reff to the gate. Its a total turd for spool up etc w/o it. And lastly i dont trust the spring to control peak boost as stern as id like, i have a gain programed in (over boost) for a hard hit then settles to where my duty cycle is programed. The thing could overshoot wildly w/o this.

I cant see many other properly working turbo system being much diff.

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Originally Posted by BOSS LX

You guys need to settle on a blower cfm. To me a 76mm turbo, with a 76mm inlet is equal to a 1500 cfm blower.

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Yes that is close, my PTE 76GTSH witha 1.08 a/r comp and .96 a/r ex flows a max 1350 CFM according to the pec sheet that came with it.

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Originally Posted by BOSS LX

You guys need to settle on a blower cfm. To me a 76mm turbo, with a 76mm inlet is equal to a 1500 cfm blower.

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This will be a hard thing to police with the turbos.

Technically a 76mm, 76mm wheel and inlet, has gone into the upper 8s. Does it happen a lot, no, but it can. There are SOOO many different types of 76mms out there it is incredible, and they are a popular size for a lot of turbo kits which is why I can understand why you would want to include it. The majority of the people with these turbos are not going to have eight second cars is what it will come down to, though.

this class sounds interesting :shades

Bobby....

with a 70mm inlet restriction, how fast could they go at 3300lbs?

and then at that point we are just trying to include them like you said, but they won't be pushing 25psi to get that e.t., so now it's a parts saver too.

That'd be the ultimate goal, save money on pushing parts too hard.

What do you guys think would be fair on the S/C's ? I know an S-trim doesn't compete against a BBC on spray in regards to HOW fast it could go, but I guess I'm just looking at Sam, Andy, Josh and how fast they were going. How hard were they being pushed? 100%?

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Originally Posted by BOSS LX

You guys need to settle on a blower cfm. To me a 76mm turbo, with a 76mm inlet is equal to a 1500 cfm blower.

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Agreed, But im not sold on the no boost controllers, MY combo should yield close to a 10.20 all out, but i would like to eailsy lower the boost to run on the street, but i do realize that 9.xx cars could do the same and run within the cap.... but they could also respring the wastegate and what not if need be.... I just hink that being catored to a street car that the user frieldnt things like that should be allowed .. just my .02

so skotty would this be allowed??:rolf:goof

I agree with Tom on the boost controllers. It's not really possible to properly set up a turbo without one. Now if you mean in-cab electronic "launch control", "boost limiting", "Traction aiding" feedback-style boost controllers, that's a totally different thing, but if thats what you mean you should specify it.

About the 70mm inlet, that's also vague. Turbo size in mm is measured at the tip of the compressor wheel, the actual compressor cover inlet itself is always significantly larger (3-4" typically). 70mm is 2.75" and pretty much no turbo beyond a 400-500HP turbo is going to have an inlet smaller than 3.0". If you have a way to reach all the way in the inlet and measure the actual compressor wheel diameter at the tips of the fins, then the 70mm rule makes a lot more sense.

were not getting to technnical on all these combos for this yr... There will be some minor changes before there 100 percent approved...

like novi blower thing

clairifing boost controlers.. ( most likely in car and electronic) way its looking...

the turbos pretty close ...with a 7omm inlet on a small housing 76 street turbo its will be a high 9sec combo if you make it consistant but average its gona be low 10sec set ups...

im not worried about A/R 1.08 compaired to a D1 were giving racers guide lines to go off of... for simple round about combos this yr... then next yr we can modify rules ... we need to get cars out there this up coming yr and the following we find out what cars had what and modify rules....

Guys your reading to indepth just yet .. relaxe come out have some fun try it out you will be very suprised on what combos you think will dominate

Scotty, we doing the weight thing we were talking about? :) I think it'd be neat :)

Worked great in Car Craft Street Race

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottie K

were not getting to technnical on all these combos for this yr... There will be some minor changes before there 100 percent approved...

like novi blower thing

clairifing boost controlers.. ( most likely in car and electronic) way its looking...

the turbos pretty close ...with a 7omm inlet on a small housing 76 street turbo its will be a high 9sec combo if you make it consistant but average its gona be low 10sec set ups...

im not worried about A/R 1.08 compaired to a D1 were giving racers guide lines to go off of... for simple round about combos this yr... then next yr we can modify rules ... we need to get cars out there this up coming yr and the following we find out what cars had what and modify rules....

Guys your reading to indepth just yet .. relaxe come out have some fun try it out you will be very suprised on what combos you think will dominate

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efi , plastic intakes should be allowed direct port ,there is no advantage just better fuel and nitrous distribution ,make it work Scotty

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Originally Posted by 2 bad z's

efi , plastic intakes should be allowed direct port ,there is no advantage just better fuel and nitrous distribution ,make it work Scotty

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we talked about it we just came to concluision that a plate style on ls1s will be capible running the number... If we let direct port in on one we have to leave it go on all others .....

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Originally Posted by scottie K

we talked about it we just came to concluision that a plate style on ls1s will be capible running the number... If we let direct port in on one we have to leave it go on all others .....

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then let them in ,i do not see a advantage either way ,just personal preferance

IM NOT LETTING FOGGERS IN!!.... then you will have a 1000hp bb to contend with hitting the brakes at 600ft

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Originally Posted by scottie K

IM NOT LETTING FOGGERS IN!!.... then you will have a 1000hp bb to contend with hitting the brakes at 600ft

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no fogger but a irs change over is ok ,wonder why they get away from the irs :shades

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottie K

we talked about it we just came to concluision that a plate style on ls1s will be capible running the number... If we let direct port in on one we have to leave it go on all others .....

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not true Scotty ,they will not get there with a plate unless you remove alot of weight and most guys bs on the hit they use to get there anyways,I dont care if you change the rules on the ls1 fogger Im just telling it like it is

I wasn't gonna say anything because I sold my LX and have nothing fast enough for this class now. However, I was the one who went to Scotty and suggested this class to begin with, I'll add my 5 cents on outlawing a Novi2000. ;)

In "out of the box" form, these blowers are sold as "street friendly" and are pulllied for 8 PSI. They are also 50-state legal CARB-certified. By design, they differ from a YSI, in that they are still VERY streetable "down low" whereas a YSI is going to be a pig and is more suited for a more radical combo. Can a Novi2000 be made to put up insane amounts of boost and efficiency?

Of course.

However, with that said, rather than ban the blower itself, how about making some restrictions such as no "renegade" (8") crank pullies or limit the crank pulley to a 6.87 and the head unit to a 3.50 and no 10-rib or cog belts??

I think that too many rules sucks and it's an INDEX race, you still have to have driving skills here. Just because someone has a car that can easily break the cap does not mean they can perfect the techniques to get the job done. Ask any bracket racer that has had to be the one getting "chased" on a staggered start that has had success- You tune out that faster car and don't worry about him running you down and doing that stupid "whoop whoop", you run your race against the clock. It's no different with an index race; You setup your car for the index, you work on running the number and cutting a good lite and it won't matter if the other guy can break the cap by 5 seconds. You run your race, you win. A driver that has his car built for the index and can cut a lite is going to do better than someone who tries to rely on sheer power to win races. You don't make consistent passes on the brakes. Anyone can beat a guy who is "exposed" in the qualifiers with poor lites and a car that can't cover the cap. It's when all the cars in the class have the ability to break that cap that make for exciting races.

This mean NO IMPORTs??!?!?! :confused